Which construction SES?

Looking to buy a second hand Stellar SES, currently paddling an Epic V10S in the Club blue tip construction - intend to keep the V10S.

There are two SES's available, both in good condition. One an Advantage construction and one the Excel construction.

Lightweight, higher tech boat is very tempting but I think the Advantage may be the one to go for because of the increased stability and durability. The stability of the SES is a slight concern, I mainly use the ski for downwinders so expect a learning curve.

Any thoughts on the merits of Advantage V Excel construction much appreciated.

I moved from an Epic V10S Ultra to an SES Excel and found it quite a step up. I expect a move from a V10S Club to an SES Excel even harder.

When I bought the SES I was tempted by a used Advantage but didn't go through with it because it was interstate. My test paddles in the SES were in the Advantage layup and I certainly would have liked to test paddle an Excel but there wasn't one available.

I have since paddled an Advantage again (while on holidays interstate) and it did feel more stable than my Excel.

I would try and paddle both layups in the type of conditions you are expecting to paddle in. I've paddled the Excel for around 8 months and I'm still certainly coming to terms with it. Even with me paddling 4-5 days a week. I expect the Advantage may have been a bit less of a challenge.

The Advantage might be a little more stable but don't let durability sway you, the Stellar Excel versions are extremely durable, more so than my Performance layup V10L was anyway. But the lesser weight of the Excel is definitely noticeable and an advantage if you ever have to carry the ski any sort of distance. But the SES is a big step up from a V10S and you might struggle for some time.

Before I bought my SES Excel I demo'd an Advantage and can't say I noticed the difference in stability when I jumped into my new lighter boat for the first paddle - no "WTF is this"? However I don't dispute any comments here, would second them in fact given the stability difference I did notice a few years ago between a V10 Performance and V10 Elite carbon fibre - a weight difference of about 4.5 kgs. The carbon was a lot corkier, and for me at the time impossible to paddle in bumpy stuff. Weight difference between the Excel and Advantage in the SES is around 3kgs, less extreme than the V10 boat experience, my SES weighing in at just under the stated 11kg and the Advantage at 14kgs.

Cost-benefit analysis then: disadvantage 1 some (minor in my view) stability difference which is likely to be mastered in time; disadvantage 2 and not insignificant is the cost difference of about $900-$1,000. Advantage 1 very biased me i love casually picking up this baby out of the water, off the sand, off the car, out of the shed and loading/unloading on car with so much ease; advantage 3 light boat much easier to manage in the breeze when carrying; advantage 4 easier to get onto runs and jump onto a wake racing or chasing.

What's it to be? Money aside, and that is a significant consideration, the disadvantage of learning curve/stability difference is clearly outweighed for me by the advantages of light weight carrying and accelerating. Haha I also forgot to mention a significant disadvantage of a light boat - that SOB will blow away quick smart if you're not careful. Cost me near $500 when it flew off the roof of my stationary car when tying down so watch it!

An edit here. That damage as I've posted somewhere else here SSI is not a reflection of poor boat build. The boat lifted off my Kia Sorrento and blew away backwards down the road a half dozen metres landing on the rudder (which was ok but dinged - sanded out after) but smashed the rudder box area front and rear of rudder. Centre of boat underneath also dinged badly at second point of contact. "Funny" part to story was putting ski back on car roof with rear tie down not quite hitched and a second strong gust lifted front of boat at about a 40 degree angle then down it came sideways and guillotined onto the open rear car door!! Nawsty! Walter Chalupsky did an awesome job fixing ma baby. Point is any layup would have been smashed up so I've no issues at all with the Excel strength.

While I cannot speak for the SES specifically, I've spent quite a bit of time in the SEL in the three different layups (paddled the Advantage, owned the Excel, and now own the Ultra), and I'm sure there's a degree of overlap.

IMO, the Excel layup is the way to go. The weight savings from the Advantage to the Excel is far greater than that of the Excel to the Ultra (full carbon). With the Excel, you have all the advantages named above: easier to load/unload, much faster to accelerate onto a run, etc. with very little difference in stability. Unless you're doing huge breaking surf, I wouldn't be at all concerned with durability (ie: 'playing it safe' with the heavier fg); the Excel layups are quite strong. I've also paddled their double, the SE2, in both layups-I wouldn't say the Advantage layup imparts much more stability than the Excel, but perhaps the difference is offset by the combined weight of both paddlers as compared to a single.

I do note that the Ultra boat is a bit more 'high strung' than the Excel version though. The roll rate is faster, and the boat does feel, as Watto said: 'corkier' (great descriptor, by the way). Most of the difference in feel, however, I attribute to the torsionally stiff carbon. There is little, if any, 'give' in the water-every nuance is communicated to you via the stiffer structure. This is wonderful most of the time, particularly when you're hammering hard through the messy bits, but if you're just cruising, it does require a bit more attention. I liken the carbon boat's personality to my Aprilia Tuono moto, if personification is permissible. It will putter around town or cruise down the boulevard, but it always seems impatient and mildly annoyed at being asked to do so. The Excel layup SEL has just the right amount of give (like the softer ruby shaft Epic paddle vs. the stiffer blue shaft version), and all the benefits of the greatly reduced mass, without communicating every little unnecessary detail of your conversation with the water.

As noted, if you can get to both SES boats, paddle each in some textured water, as there is the possibility that this model might be affected differently regarding the respective layups. Years back I owned several V10Ls in the heavier FG version. When I moved to the Ultra version of the same boat, I was initially quite surprised as in this make/model, the difference between the two layups felt like two different boats. There was no mid layup at the time; the difference in mass was far more pronounced, no doubt attributing to two vastly different personalities.

Had a 25# SES Excel and liked it a lot. Now have a 21# SES Ultra and like it even better. Even with the 4" rudder it is my go to boat if the bay looks too choppy for my skill level in my V14. I paddle the 14 whenever possible, though, as it tests and improves my ability to balance my ski. The SES Ultra feels very stable compared to the 14.
I must add that all of my paddling done in these two skis is on a small bay with no waves.I don't feel that the SES is much less stable than the V10S that I rent when on Maui where I hope to learn to catch some runs.

Thank you all for replying, what a fantastic resource this forum is!

OK, seems like the lighter Excel is the way to go, I do a lot of Stand Up Paddling and certainly appreciate the lightness of full carbon boards over the heavier construction. As long as the durability is there it certainly seems like the way to go and from your responses it appears that the stability isn't greatly affected by going for the lighter boat.

The SES makes sense because I am 5'8 and 68kg (#150) my only concern is that it may be too big a step from the V10S, particularly because I am a once or twice a week paddler. Plan on also trying an SEL before I make the final decision.

Thanks again.

Once or twice a week I don't think you should get the SES, you will never get the most out of it. The SEL is a whole heap more stable but once it gets into bigger bumps at your weight will be too big. How about a Swordfish? I have all three of these skis and feel that would be better for your weight and paddling hours you have available, stable, not too big a volume and catches small runs without even trying.

Or that new Stellar SEI in excel? if anyone has paddled one yet??..it might be all ski you need without making it hard on yourself if you wanna stay Stellar

Good call, sounds like a cracker of a boat a real Mr In-between. See Wesleys photos Surfski racing - Stellar version of Swordfish pretty much.

Yeah good call on the SEI but might be difficult finding a second hand one.
Bit of a review here.

slipstreamsurf.com.au/stellar-launches-a...ge-and-its-a-rocket/

It will be interesting to see what the smaller folk think of the SEI. It sounds like another great intermediate ski, but I haven't seen any mention of the "ideal weight" for the ski.

It would be great to see an intermediate ski for the smaller paddlers. I personally found the V10s too big in the rough. I paddled the new V10 which felt great on the flat and small stuff, but still feels like a big boat (actually felt like a fast V10s). Haven't paddled the swordfish for a while though.

I bought the SES because I wanted a ski for my size (180 cm and 73kg) and I love it (now), but its taken a lot of work........

My wife and I each paddle a Stellar SR; hers in Excel layup, mine in advantage. Our main paddling is on semi-open waters and flat water racing. I've paddled both a lot and find the only significant difference is in the weight; this is especially noticeable when racking on top of our 4WD. With my old arthritic shoulders this is very significant!

Soon she intends to get an SES and it will be again in the Excel lay-up; I'll the inherit her current Excel SR

Rented a new V10 black tip for a week and took it out for my first run this morning. It was 25 knots with gusts to 35 which in the Melbourne's Port Philip Bay whips up a storm, had to quickly try to set it up to do the run with my stand up paddle buddies, padded out the sides (not enough) adjusted the footplate (too far away) and with some trepidation set off into the wintery seas to the destination 15k away.

Certainly a little more bracing than the V10S but actually remarkably stable, the cut outs for paddle clearance very effective. Found I broached it a few times, something I never do any more in the V10S with the larger eliptical rudder in (that made a huge difference). Had a few absolute aha moments of seemingly endless linked waves that I've never experienced to the same extent in the 'S. Great boat and very forgiving for a wild first run without it being set up properly, one fall in 15k and that was attempting to turn back upwind to paddle back to the SUP crew to say hello, a steep wave crested and broke when I was side on.
But it's still a big boat, felt finer than the V10S and certainly faster, it's very comfortable for me and the bailer is amazing how fast it drains. Have to agree
with midlifecrisis, would love a low volume intermediate ski.
Was actually planning to demo the Swordfish but it was out, that's why I ended up with the new V10, try the Swordie next! Hopefully I can have a go in the SEI as well.

Is the Vault considered a small volume intermediate ski?

Here is a little video from my paddle of the V10 this morning, I know, need some stroke coaching....