When to upgrade?

If has become a safe advice to suggest stability, stability stability when proposing surfskis. But when would you suggest an upgrade?

I understand that the manufacturers push the stable models so that we, the buyers, don´t feel like idiots/beginners when we by a stable surfski.

My track in the surfski world has been as follows:

Sea kayak
Think Legend Glass
Think Legend Kevlar
Think Uno (borrowed one for some months)
Think Evo (4 months waiting for a Fenn SL)
Fenn SL
Fenn XT (5 months now, waiting for a Fenn Glide)

I have enjoyed the down trading months to the Evo and the XT, simply because it is comfortable, but it is slooooooooow.

No doubt the SL was tippy, but always faster than the Evo. Some times I felt the SL was too tippy and I longed back to the comfy Evo, but the GPS numbers always showed faster speeds than I was able to achieve in the Evo. I my mind this made the swap worthwhile.

Right now I have padded the XT seat with almost 5cm to try to keep my balance in preparation for the Glide. Hopefully that is enough reduced XT stability.

With this in mind, it would have been nice to know, for paddlers with ambitions to know when it is appropriate to upgrade, stabilitywise. Think/Stew and Epic/Wally would maybe say that if you are in doubt - go stable.

I would argue that you need to paddle a surfski for more than a test run (1hr +) to know if the ski is too tippy. You only know after you have tried the ski under different conditions and over time to know if the stability is progressing fast enough.

Thus, is it possible to say when it "should be " OK to upgrade? Eg.. If you are OK paddling Eze/XT with x padding you should be able to handle an Evo/Swordfish, and and Evo/Swordfish with x padding should make you capable to handle the Uno/ion/Glide/SL.

Maybe other approximations are better, who knows

In my mind upgrading is fun, higher speeds are fun - but it takes practice. But the practice is part of the fun!

What do you think?

I have a pretty simple formula for this. When I'm confident I can handle anything, by which I mean serious ocean rebound and big wind, I'm probably right to start looking at the next model up.
I made the mistake of staying with my V10S too long, should have gotten into a V10 much earlier, but was worried I wouldn't be able to handle 'everything' in the V10.
As you say, it only took an hour's paddling in the ocean to work out that I could, and I haven't looked back.
Mark.

Being a recent convert from sea kayaks and of more "mature" years, stability is my focus. Being older and wiser I want to spend more time paddling my ski, not worrying about balance and tipping out as soon as you get hit with a bit of wind chop, rebound or a boat wake. Sick and tired of getting wet. However, got to be a dab hand with remounts though.

Well I just made an upgrade to a Fenn Blue Fin in the carbon layup. Not as fast as most, but stable as and picks up runners and surfs with ease. Will I upgrade from this? Probably not. Will I get a faster/skinnier boat for race events in the Sydney area in the future? Maybe. Won't be an upgrade though, it will be a second boat.

I'm a bit the same mick. I've got a carbon xt, but have been thinking of a second ski for flat water. On Sunday I wanted to test my stability. I went looking for as much ugly stuff I could with a 12 km circuit of middle head, south head, north head and manly. I felt comfortable throughout so I'm getting tempted to go trying boats at pro kayaks. So far I am resisting the urge!

Love2ski wrote: I'm a bit the same mick. I've got a carbon xt, but have been thinking of a second ski for flat water. On Sunday I wanted to test my stability. I went looking for as much ugly stuff I could with a 12 km circuit of middle head, south head, north head and manly. I felt comfortable throughout so I'm getting tempted to go trying boats at pro kayaks. So far I am resisting the urge!

Why?

Marieski wrote:

Love2ski wrote: I'm a bit the same mick. I've got a carbon xt, but have been thinking of a second ski for flat water. On Sunday I wanted to test my stability. I went looking for as much ugly stuff I could with a 12 km circuit of middle head, south head, north head and manly. I felt comfortable throughout so I'm getting tempted to go trying boats at pro kayaks. So far I am resisting the urge!

Why?

I have a garage come boatshed at the moment with 1 x Fenn, 2 x Stealth and a Hobie Outback fishing kayak! Couple of them will have to go before I get a second (flatwater) ski. She Who Must Be Obeyed will probably rip my head off if I brought another boat home!

Just join a club with storage facility's and hide all the ski's you want without her knowing.

Kayaker Greg wrote: Just join a club with storage facility's and hide all the ski's you want without her knowing.

Like your line of reasoning Greg. A man after my own heart

Cheers,
Mick

Another positive effect of paddling a tippier boat is that the reduced stability will expose bad technique immediately, eg lack of locking the blade, pulling the paddle past the hip.

Therefore, another benefit of upgrading to a tippier ski is that you will paddle more stable surfskis faster after you are accustomed to a tippy ski

fredrik wrote: Another positive effect of paddling a tippier boat is that the reduced stability will expose bad technique immediately

It will also do wonders for your swimming stroke

I think you know when you're ready to step up. There's no secret formula, and every paddler is different.

It does concern me seeing guys on skis which are beyond their capabilities. I understand that we must push the envelope to develop as paddlers, but I hate seeing a paddler giving the sport away and selling their ski because they took a jump too far. Even worse is seeing a paddler get injured because they're on the wrong boat, and I've seen this more than once.

The ideal scenario is having two skis as you develop, but that's not possible for all of course. I believe Oscar made the point that when you no longer have to make a brace stroke on your current boat in all conditions, then you're ready to step up.

The technique debate is an interesting one. You may have flaws on a stable ski which are exposed on a tippier craft, but I think you see a lot more flaws on guys paddling the tippier boats.

I think that everyone should get some coaching as they learn how to paddle and do one on one sessions every few months to keep on track. Working with a coach will help you know when the time is right to make the jump up, as well as establishing solid technique.

The beauty of the industry now is that there are so many options with skis. From Think's perspective, we now have 5 skis of various stabilities, so there are stepping stones all the way from absolute beginner to elite level paddler. I'm sure most of the other brands will have similar options, and that can only be a good thing for the sport.

I believe Stew\s input below is valuable advice. If we are willing to put in the necessary effort, it is amazing what we are able to achieve.

So unless you are a naturally born paddler or a K1 veteran, the rules of thumb for successfully moving up to a potentially faster, but tippier boat, could be as follows:

1. "You no longer have to make a brace stroke on your current boat in all conditions"
2. You need to be willing to put in 3-5 weekly sessions in the new tippy boat until "you no longer have to make a brace stroke" in the conditions you want to master. Swiss ball training should be included.
3. You should be willing to actively develop the paddling technique through coaching or other means.

If this is a reasonable summary of the expected effort for an upgrade, each paddler can individually conclude if they are willing to make the effort. Some may say "no", and some may say "yes".

In the end it will be a win/win. The dedicated, "stubborn" and/or talented paddlers move to the faster boats without unnecessary delay and the others paddle the boats they “for the time being” should . Even if a paddlers fails to successfully upgrade, or changes his/her mind after some time, it is likely that they will be more skilled than ever in their original boat.

In all it is a matter of taking the mystery out of tippy surfskis and making informed and honest equipment selection.

I thought I was ready to upgrade. Except this morning I paddled out past middle head into that strong side shore southerly, and promptly fell off three times.

Oh well I will stick to my xt for a while yet.

I would also add that the fastest ski in theory, may not be the fastest ski for you. I know several guys who paddle intermediate skis and beat all the guys in their squad on elite level skis. For some, there is never a requirement to change as they have found an ideal ski for their skills, the time they have to put into their paddling and the level they want to train and compete at. I don't think paddling an elite level boat should be set as a goal for everyone. Paddle the boat that allows you to paddle the best you can be.

From a safety point of view, consider the worst conditions you could find yourself in on your regular paddling venues, and work back from there. Could you remount in those conditions on the ski you are paddling? Apply full power with each stroke?

I think Fredrik's points are very accurate and offer great advice to guys looking to step up in craft.

Point 1 in Fredrik's post is an interesting conundrum in my case. As Stew stated I was one of those who tried (tippy) skis beyond my capability. For me, at a "mature" 57 years of age, having not to brace in all conditions was a key criteria in what I required in an offshore ski. Spent too many hours in the water and expended way too much energy on remounts and was getting pretty p.ssed off.

That is why I went for the Fenn Blue Fin. Ticked all the boxes for me in an all-round ski. This is my review on the Fenn: fatpaddler.com/2013/04/surfski-review-fe...rs-ocean-racing-ski/

Many other similar boats on the market from many manufacturers that target the beginner and more experienced paddler who want a stable and fun all-round ski. Also as Stew stated, this can only be a good thing for the sport.

In a previous post on this thread I stated that I will probably get a faster (tippier) ski to compete in flat water events and time trials such as Blast events and Summer Series races in Sydney. But in reality, at my age it is all about enjoying paddling for as long as I am physically able to do so. Bit of downwind runners and surfing combined with some flat water cruising.

My upgrade was from sea kayaks and have only been into skis for the last 12 months. Still got a lot to learn and now have a boat the will enable me to do so ... And that is good for me.