Fenn XT question and a couple of others

Hello all.. I'm pretty new to this forum and have been reading quite a bit here but so far haven't found an answer yet to my question. I'm looking into getting my first ski and I'm wondering (looking at Fenn XTs and perhaps Epic V10 Sports) how I tell the difference in age of say the last several years of the XT. How do I tell by looking at them if it's an 2010 or 11 or 2012?

One other question I have is .. I have a weak back and stomach muscles...back from a snow skiing accident years ago. I'm in my early 60's and overweight. Okay, I'm 5'10" and 220 to 225 pounds. I have read that some of you use some sort of pads in the seats sometimes and I'm wondering.. do some of these pads help in keeping you positioned so that you can sit up straight easier or slightly leaning forward easier? Something like this.. if it exists.. would help me greatly.
Thanks for your help!

I've got no idea how you tell the age of a ski. May be ask the bloke who you buy it from , how old it is!. It really doesn't matter, cos from a resale point of view a used xt will cost about the same no matter if it's 1,2 or 3 years old. Structurally it shouldn't make any difference provided it's been looked after. If you can get a used xt in good nick, at a price your happy with just buy it, cos when you sell it you'll get your money back anyway (well almost). Boats aren't like cars in the way they depreciate.
An old xt (9-10years) is still a very sellable commodity and still a great boat to learn in. Also try the custom kayak horizon. Cheap as chips new and a brilliant beginners boat. I still love to paddle Mrs Dicko's boat sometimes. Weighs a ton but goes downwind like a train once it's up and running. Can also take it snorkelling if I want.

Secondly a seat pad won't help your posture. It lifts you higher in the boat so you theoretically get more leverage and rotation when you paddle. It will lift you out of the boat if the cockpit is too tight. It will also make you more unstable, which will make your posture worse. Get a boat that feels comfortable to sit in, make sure you have your legs adjusted right....especially not too straight, and practice sitting upright.
If it aggravates your back ,etc, fiddle with the leg length till it feels comfortable. A common problem with recreational paddlers is to have the legs too straight... cos it feels stable. This puts all sorts of strain on your back, hammies and groin. That is my two cents worth.

Well I differ as I found a seat pad did help me in my V10L which I always felt like I was paddling uphill and couldn't get forward enough in. I made a seat pad which had more height at the rear which improved my position and posture, in fact I've had several sea kayaks where I've done exactly the same thing.

Greg.... Would you happen to have any pictures of your seat pad your talking about? Did you carve it out of closed cell foam I'm guessing?

I'm sorry I don't have any of the pad I made for my Epic which is gone now but I have some pics of the pad I made for my SES. I needed to raise myself just slightly to give my hips some room and take pressure off my sit bones, also relieve rubbing on my lower back bone. And provide more connection with the ski for stability. If you get some 10mm closed cell foam you can laminate it to build or reduce where you need it rather than carving it. So under the outer pad that you can see, there is another smaller dimension pad laminated with Bostick Spray Tak adhesive, this pad has holes in it where the sit bones are, then under this pad there is a third smaller pad up through the middle, to kind of make the seat a little like a bicycle seat and provide more support and relieve more pressure from the sit bones which is where I get sore after an hour in the bucket. I just don't get sore any more. But the pressure is relieved from the sit bones and the reality is I'm hardly sitting much higher than without the pad, I'm just better supported. For my Epic I built the rear up with extra foam than I did the front, this tilted my pelvis and helped me stay forward rather than feel I was leaning back or struggling to stay forward. It takes a few paddles and experimentation to get it right sometimes and it can be useful to have some different thickness of foam at hand, say some 5mm and thinner as well.
Once you have a rough shape of your first piece of outer foam made you can put it in the oven, heat it to 140 celcius and heat the pad, use gloves to put it in your bucket, having already drawn where it needs to go exactly and sit in it in your paddling shorts. It will mould itself to your shape and stay that way when it cools and show where to cut holes in the next lower piece for your sit bones. Then you can laminate the lower pieces as needed. The spray glue dry's pretty quick enabling you to get on with the job.
Finish it off with some two way stretchable material which enables you to slip on the pad for rotation, otherwise the foam itself is too grippy. This also prolongs its life. I've been using mine for 18months now and the outer material is just starting to wear through at one corner.
I suggest you just tape it in place until you are happy with where it supports you or you can remove some material with a sharp knife or a coarse file until its comfortable. Can be handy to take a small sureform on your trial paddles to remove any material if needed. Then you can glue it in with the same spray adhesive that you used for laminating and fitting the material.
I'm getting a new ski soon, I will try and photograph the steps in making a seat for that as I make it.

Sorry you may need a Facebook account to view the photos, I've had trouble posting photos to this site before. If you can't view them let me know and I'll try and post them up again.

www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.172096...0002425151844&type=3

Greg...that is one awesome looking seat! I didn't have any problem seeing them...I do have a Facebook account.. Not used much but have one. I can understand that using the smaller thicknesses of foam to build a seat up where you need it makes more sense than carving something out of a bigger block. The layers that go under the top layer, do you feather out the edges of those then?

This is exactly the information I was looking for and hoping to get.

How did you attach the fabric and what kind of fabric is it?

When the seat is finished and it's glued into the boat, if you needed to remove it for some reason or make another one, is it hard to get it out since it was glued in using the Bostik Spray Tak Adhesive?

How long do you leave the foam in the oven when heating it up?

It sure would be helpful to see the steps one at a time if you do photograph the next seat you build. That would definitely be a big help.

You can feather the edges if you wish, it depends on where the edge is and if you can feel it or not. The material is fitted with the same Bostik Spray Tak Adhesive. You just need to make sure your material is two way stretchable, most materials only stretch one way, two way makes it easy to fit. Go to one of those shops that men hate to go to, with all sorts of materials and crafts and they will have some. Its kind of like lycra. You only need to put the foam in the oven until the oven gets up to temp, keep your eye on it and if it starts to smoke its time to remove it.

I've made seats this way for 5 boats now. Its worth it and especially when kayaking where you tend to be in the boat a lot longer than in a ski, I just have my lunch in my kayak and everyone wonders how I can stay seated all day, well its warmer and more comfortable than getting out somewhere in winter time.

There was a change in design on the Fenn XT about three years ago. The new model has a single footwell while the old was devided.

I had a Fenn XT of the old type and as for posture it is horrible( at least for me). I felt like paddling uphill and soon I started experimenting with a seat pad. That proved to be rather tricky. My understanding of a seat pads function is that it can provide height and tilt. Tilt is the tricky one. In order to get that, your sit bones have to sit on the edge of the pad. So what I think happens is that the sit bones compress the foam, but behind them, the foam does not get compressed as much. So the result should be that your get tilted forward. Off cause if you have material in front of the sit bones I think the tilt gets canceled out. The Fenn XT has a big bucket and being able to position the pad correctly proved very difficult. What you also has to take into account, is the you move around in the bucket. I did try another approach and that was to put the pad inside my pants, like in cycling pants. That way it worked to a degree. Eventually I gave up on the XT and bought a V12. My paddling position improved but not enough and I am back to wearing a pad My understanding of a poor paddling position is, after three years of trying, that it is not something that you can bypass by getting in shape. It has to be correct from the start, otherwise it is just to difficult.

Kayaker Greg wrote: I'm sorry I don't have any of the pad I made for my Epic which is gone now but I have some pics of the pad I made for my SES.

Greg this is great, too great to let it get lost under a Fenn XT heading, would be great if you could repost it under it's own topic on seat padding

Thanks, I have a new ski coming my way by the end of the month so I will take photo's and provide info as a "how to make your kayak/ski seat" as I'm always explaining how to do this in ski's or kayaks somewhere or another.

Greg - Thanks a lot for sharing all your information and knowledge...I've started ordering the things I need to get this seat done. I'm looking forward to your more in length explanation of your process!

Kemi - Thanks for the heads up on the design change and your experiences with trying to get a proper fit in the bucket. Being new to this sport, I wasn't aware of that. I'm going to try Kayaker Greg's idea of making a seat pad that fits. I think this may be the ticket!

Something you could try in the meantime, which I haven't tried but I know of people that do, is to put a piece of poly bubble in the bucket, not sure how good it works but I know of a good paddler and coach that does this.

Greg - Poly Bubble ?? What is that?

Sorry, might be more commonly known as bubble wrap.

www.google.co.nz/search?q=bubble+wrap&hl...LAE&biw=1277&bih=861