EPIC V10 Sport Elite leaking due to pinholes!

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11 years 4 months ago #14509 by MarcD
I have a second hand Epic Elite; it is probably 4 years old, so from the old factory in China.
I have the problem that due to numerous pinholes on the hull, after a paddle of between 1-2 hours I have quite a lot of water in the hull...not ideal!

I obviously need to sand back and re-coat.

Any tips as to what equipment I require exactly to do the job?
This is a fair way outside my level of expertise.

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11 years 4 months ago #14511 by ccchappell
Eric McNett, an Epic Rep in Maine, USA, refurbished an older Carbon V10 for a friend of ours, that had the same issue. Came out great. Not sure how he did it, but looks great and no more leaks through all the pin holes. Don't know if Eric watches this site much, but believe his email is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Good luck,
Chris

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11 years 4 months ago #14602 by MarcD
What am I doing wrong?





I have sanded back (enough? Too much?) a thin layer of the existing outer coat, with a fine grade (120) sander and then used an Epoxy from International called Epiglass9000. But as you can see it is not taking to the surface properly. Am I not doing something right? Do I need a primer or something else? I tried thinning a little with acetone also, but made no difference.

Any help appreciated.
Attachments:

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11 years 4 months ago #14613 by Simon Haywood
My two cents worth...Looks like a surface contamination, not sufficiently cleaned prior to apply the resin(looks like polish/wax present at time of application and subsequently trapped/repelled). You'll need to remove all the top coat applied and follow the recommendations on the Epiglass9000 container for surface preparation. It will also need a decent surface wipe prior to applying your next coat. You'll need to make sure the surface has perfectly dried after applying the correct thinners otherwise you'll have a similar solvent release from trapped residue.

Previous craft: Affinity, Endorfinn, Multisport, Epic V8, V10sport, V10, V12, Fenn Swordfish, Spirit PRS Elite; Stellar S18S, SR, SE, SEL, S2E, S2EL

Current Skis:
Huki S1-R
Stellar S18S - Excel
Stellar SR - Ultra


Skis on order: None!

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11 years 4 months ago #14614 by Kayaker Greg
Not familiar with working with the epoxy etc but when preparing a car for painting sanding will not remove wax's and silicones etc, you need a special wax and silicone remover and need to keep cleaning the surface before and between sanding and before painting with new clean rags. Not sure what you would need to use for your application however, perhaps a boat builder might be able to give advice.

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11 years 4 months ago #14629 by Watto
Given Kayaker Greg's comment about prep, is it best advised to avoid using silicone sprays, waxes given possibility of boat repair? (Wally?)

Also does layup make any difference, eg carbon, kevlar, fibreglass? (Wouldn't seem to as a guess given epoxy is the bonding agent and the layup 'inanimate').

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  • Brad
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11 years 4 months ago #14637 by Brad
Hi Marc
I am wondering whether you did enough sanding. I recently re-furbished a carbon K1 hull. I wet sanded with 80 grit for about 2 hours solid (say 3 hours for a ski). Had no issues with adhesion (used West System epoxy but probably similar properties to Epiglass). Then put on 3 coats of epoxy in quick succession (ie apply next coat as soon as previous coat has gelled) then wet sanded again 80/150/400/600/800/1200/cutting compound/wax polish. Took about 4 hours for this. Absolutely stunning results (perfect as new finish).

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  • Brad
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11 years 4 months ago #14641 by Brad
PS
Been thinking about it some more - I am sure the issue is not enough sanding rather than any contamination issues. If you wet sand, the process grinds off and carries away (in the water) anything on the prior surface. You end up with a surface texture which is very "grippy" - don't know how else to describe it but it wears through the skin on your finger tips by the time you have finished the sanding process.
Also, never thin epoxy with anything. It only degrades its properties. If you want epoxy to be thinner you need warmer temperatures (although working time reduces).
I think the next step is to buy about six sheets of 80 grit wet sandpaper and be prepared for a long haul to remove the irregular application of epoxy so far. I use a quarter sheet and a closed cell foam sanding block so I don't get any flat spots. Each sheet goes "blunt" after say 1.0 sqaure metre of sanding so if you buy lots you will get the job done way quicker. Don't complete a small area at a time - better to gradually take back the surface by going over the whole boat several times in order to avoid creating any unfareness or undulations. By the time you have done that (maybe a 4 hour session) the surface will be fine to apply the epoxy again. Don't epoxy again until the surface is perfectly fair, with no further lumps or hollows.
After applying epoxy you probably need to start with 80 grit again because you will have some minor ripples to remove, but not for long before moving to the finer grades - it cuts quite quickly. All sanding is done wet.
Good Luck - I am sure you will get a good result next time and the hard work will be worthwhile : )

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11 years 4 months ago - 11 years 4 months ago #14643 by Kayaker Greg
How do you know the surface is not contaminated Brad? Do you know the ski has never been polished, waxed or had silicone anywhere near it? All the thinking and sanding in the world will not remove polish and silicone or other contaminants, it will merely spread it around and contaminate the freshly sanded surface.

Also if there is wax, silicone or polish in those pinholes should he keep sanding until the pin holes are sanded out? If the pinholes are letting in water now, he is not going to have much boat left.
Last edit: 11 years 4 months ago by Kayaker Greg.

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11 years 4 months ago #14644 by MarcD
Right, well have now:
-sanded back from original state
-2 coats of Epoxy
-wet sanded back
- another 2 coats of epoxy

I initially had what I thought was a pretty good finish however the wet sanding brought about some blemishes and streaks on the surface I just could not shift.

Finish now looks OK on surface but you can still see the streaks under the clear coat.

Once fully tested and ensured it is watertight I shall take some photos and post.

If the issue is not resolved then it is off to a proper boat repairer. I reckon about 10-12 hours on such a task is my limit.

Thanks for your posts and comments

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  • Brad
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11 years 4 months ago #14645 by Brad
Wet sanding process will remove all contaminants. You end up with a wet paste which you keep washing off as you go and by the end of that, all contaminants are long gone. I used to polish my K1 every weekend with various car polishes containing wax and silicon then when it came time to do the job described above there were no issues. You could be right about the pinholes though ... possibly you need to find and de-gunk each and every one individually (pressure inside the boat from a vacuum cleaner and soapy water on the outside) but more likely they are voids in the weave and actually quite big so when you have sanded off the top surface down to the weave there is a lot more of the pinhole exposed and the resin will key into it and plug it up even if there is a bit of contaminant weakening the bond ... Epoxy is damed sticky stuff.

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11 years 4 months ago - 11 years 4 months ago #14646 by Kayaker Greg
OK, you can believe that and I don't have the experience with doing the job we are discussing, however I do have experience with painting cars and wet sanding will definitely not remove contaminants and is a good way to ruin a good paint job by not removing said contaminants with a wax and silicone remover. And epoxy is a lot stickier than paint, however we will have to disagree on this one.
Last edit: 11 years 4 months ago by Kayaker Greg.

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  • Brad
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11 years 4 months ago #14647 by Brad
no worries Greg. Looks Like Marco has got it sussed now though ...

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11 years 4 months ago #14703 by MarcD
Sorry for taking so long to post.

here are some of the finished product.

Generally looks OK. Certainly not professional and a bit rough around the edges, but I am happy because am was to fix the leaks and that has been done! and with no added weight.

Time will tell if it lasts the distance.

Thanks for your input guys

p.s. Next time I'd take it to a pro and just pay the $$!
ss1

ss2

ss3

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11 years 4 months ago #14704 by MarcD
ss1

ss2

ss3

Photos attached this time......i hope

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