× Tips and techniques for getting the most out of surfskiing.

Knee action

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11 years 8 months ago #13708 by drjay9051
Knee action was created by drjay9051
I just watched a youtube video titled Paddling With Szolt.

I cannot paste the link here.

In the video Szolt's knee action is very pronounced. It looks like he is actually pumping them almost like riding a recumbent bicycle !
Now I know the footboard is not moving so it must be a result of his torso rotation. Yes he has some great rotation.

Being new to this I cannot hope to become proficient in a month or so. However i know that I am engaging my torso quite a bit yet my knees do not move . Thinking it was a matter of moving the footboard toward the bucket I tried that. Result was a cramped feeling and a bit less stability.

What am I missing here?

BTW: out in the Gulf this weekend. Did a couple of miles without a swim. I am getting there bit by bit.

It's odd. I never did lose weight in light of the fact that my obesity was bad for my health, adversely effected my mountain biking, adversely effected my horseback riding and adversely effected my sex life!

Now having taken up ski I am committed to losing the gut.
So does this mean i am an addict?

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11 years 8 months ago #13712 by SDisle07*
Replied by SDisle07* on topic Re: Knee action
Getting good leg drive (knee action) is a result of proprt hip rotation.

See Greg Barton's youtube video:


Jon A.

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11 years 8 months ago #13713 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Re: Knee action
Try swinging your torso to the side and pulling on your offside rather than pushing yourself back in the bucket on your drive side, you should move in your bucket rather than jamming yourself back in the bucket, then your knees will move. You might even find that increasing your distance to your footbed will help you to achieve this.

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11 years 8 months ago #13714 by drjay9051
Replied by drjay9051 on topic Re: Knee action

SDisle07* wrote: Getting good leg drive (knee action) is a result of proprt hip rotation.

See Greg Barton's youtube video:



Jon A.


Jon:

I have Greg's Forward Stroke DVD and have watched it many times. I just cannot get the knee drive yet.

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11 years 8 months ago - 11 years 8 months ago #13716 by Kocho
Replied by Kocho on topic Re: Knee action
It will come over time. As a setup in my Epic V10 Sport, when I sit facing forward with knees together and heels on the foot board, I have space for a full fist under my knees. That's both of my knees are bent in that still position. I get about 3.5" between the hump and the underside of my knees. I have a 36" inseam, if that's any indication - I think shorter folks would need to lift their knees higher to get the same level of rotation. I suppose, narrower hips would require less knee lift too -;) (simple geometry at work, so don't take the absolute measurements)... The width of the boat's catch area also matters to some extent and wider boats limit the need for extreme rotation, I suppose.

If I go higher, I can't utilize the extra leg drive, if I go lower (straigher legs) I don't have enough leg drive for a full rotation.

As suggested, part of the rotation comes from the pulling leg contracting, part of it comes from the pushing leg straightening. The point is that you do not want to use your leg action to push yourself to the back of the bucket, but to rotate your bum on the seat.

Some hip joint flexibility might be restricting super big rotation though - I know I personally can't sort of cross my kness like K1 racing paddlers do it during the stroke (as seen from the front)...
Last edit: 11 years 8 months ago by Kocho.

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11 years 8 months ago - 11 years 8 months ago #13717 by Kayaker Greg
Replied by Kayaker Greg on topic Re: Knee action
Just to add, the lumbar region of the spine should be stable, not rotating, so the rotation should come from firstly the hip movement in the bucket, then the thoracic spine, do not try to rotate the lumbar region, you will loose a lot of power and stability doing that and the lumbar region is designed for leaning forward and backwards, not rotating.

Helps to practice your rotation by getting on the floor on your knees, lift up so you are not sitting on your heels, so like your standing but have been cut off at the knees, then rotate just your thoracic spine while keeping the lumbar region stable and facing forward.

Stretching this thoracic area daily is a good idea for the added flexibility and easier rotation.
Last edit: 11 years 8 months ago by Kayaker Greg.

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11 years 8 months ago #13718 by drjay9051
Replied by drjay9051 on topic Re: Knee action
Thanks all. I'll try your suggestions.

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11 years 8 months ago #13719 by Physio
Replied by Physio on topic Re: Knee action

drjay9051 wrote:
adversely effected my horseback riding and adversely effected my sex life!

you might want to try keeping yr tongue in :laugh: yr gona bite that thing off on horseback.

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11 years 8 months ago #13729 by Marieski
Replied by Marieski on topic Re: Knee action
Are you using footstraps? If not, do so. It's pretty much impossible to get hip rotation if you are using jamming yourself against both feet and the back of the bucket to get stability. If you are using footstraps, try to get the feeling of pushing on one (the stroke side) while pulling against the other.

Also, as you are applying pressure through your stroke side foot preparing to plant the paddle, try leaning the boat over a little to the stroke side. I found my hips wouldn't really free up and rotate if they were only doing it in one plane. Do this in an exaggerated way, then gradually ease off. Whether you eventually use roll as part of your stroke doesn't actually matter, but it's a good way of getting the motor programming started.

Try each of these things as training drills, ie 100 strokes at a time with a few repeats.

This is just stuff I have discovered for myself. Hope it works for you.

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7

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11 years 8 months ago - 11 years 8 months ago #13731 by Watto
Replied by Watto on topic Re: Knee action
Sit on the carpet upright torso at 90 degrees with both legs straight in front. Using your sit bones - the bones in your butt - "walk" forwards. Use your arms too, like a marathon walker, swinging them as you push one leg forwards and then the other.

Now do it with your legs bent as they would be in a ski or kayak, knees up slightly.That's the motion.

Now do the same thing against a wall and pushing with your heels. You're not going anywhere of course but you have activated your legs, glutes (big butt muscles), abdomen, lower back and hip flexors (lots of references in forums on this site - google hip flexors to see that). You should feel your backside swivelling under you on the floor (pelvis rotating).

What you should feel is a something to work against with your heels (the wall); all that energy you're putting into that transfer point (apart from effort energy lost farting, belching and getting your tongue out of the way) should be transferred to your paddle stroke in the boat.

As comments above, takes time to get it right, but once you get that wiggle going there will be no stopping you.
Last edit: 11 years 8 months ago by Watto. Reason: Grammar

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11 years 8 months ago #13732 by drjay9051
Replied by drjay9051 on topic Re: Knee action
Watto:

Great tip !! I will try that tonight after work. The dog will think I've lost my mind !

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11 years 8 months ago #13740 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re: Knee action

drjay9051 wrote: Watto:

Great tip !! I will try that tonight after work. The dog will think I've lost my mind !


Nah the dog will be thinking "oh, poor bugger has got worms" :P

Always looking for the next boat :)

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