Findeisen UX rudder cables

Hi, Just broke the cables on my ski for the nth time. I live in Venezuela and only have access to fishing cable. Ive heard of Ocean 3000 single braid and Spectra braid. Any recommendations. 2mm or 3mm thick.
By the way the tube that houses the cable also detached and is loose inside. (I know get a new ski.) Do I have to split open my ski to remedy the situation........

Thanks for the help.

Sounds like you have the pedals angled back towards you a lot, allowing you to put full body weight on them in some circumstances.

I can think of a couple of ways to get the rudder line out. The easiest would be to drill a hole about 1cm where the cable leaves the hull. Big enough to see inside, then get a stick, whack on some silatic, stick it through the hole and sit it on the rudder cable or tube. Leave it a day, to dry, then pull out the cable. You will have a small hole to repair where you drilled into the boat.
Spectra is available online. Most boats have 3mm, but it doesn't really matter. My Think has damn skinny stuff coming out the hull.

I have the same problem. Never the cable itself that goes but where the cable is crimped. After a particularly cold, sunset, windswept swim/repair job two Saturdays ago I'm pulling the plug on this cable idea and replacing it with Dyneema - Here's their blurb:

“Much stronger than steel AmSteel-Blue is a 12-Strand braided rope utilizing Parallay design with blue Samthane coating with Dyneema® SK-75 fiber. This rope yields the maximum in strength-to-weight ratio and is stronger than wire rope constructions - yet it floats. Extremely light, Non-rotational, Very low stretch, Easily spliced inspected or field spliced, Torque-free, Very flexible, Easy to handle"

Ordered it from the Dinghyshop (online in the US) and costs about $ 0.30 per foot.

Just beware that dyneema degrades rapidly in UV.

If the cable is breaking at the termination points, then fix the termination points with a termination suitable for the job.
Obviously the manufacturer has skimped on this and maybe the best thing to do is contact them and see if they have a new modified termination.
Without this feedback, they may never know that a problem exists.

I recently opened the steering hatch of a new new demo ski of un-named variety.
The very first thing I saw was that it had a horizontal aluminium plate as a tiller bar.
The cord was simply tied to this, but had countersunk holes which created a sharp edge.
Both steering cords were cut through the sheath and the core was beginning to cut.

Had they been bent over to a vertical orientation like an epic, there would have been no problem.
Poor termination choice, and I would personally not venture far on this ski without an inspection before every paddle.
I showed the shop owner as this boat was about to be shipped to a sponsored athlete to use.

He cut off the severed bits, and retied it before it was shipped off.

He contacted the supplier and was told not to worry about it as this stuff was rated to a silly amount of strength.

Now this is simply a supplier using something out of it's element.
Any cord can cut, and it's pull strength is nothing to do with how well it resists this.
It simply needs the system re-engineered.
This is something as a climber that I know, because I need to.
A typical cord of that construction is mega strong when used appropriately.
That usage is clearly outside of how it has been rated.

The supplier has been informed of the problem and now if anybody has some sort of incident that is caused by this, like being stranded 10km of shore, he has opened the door for litigation.

Obviously the manufacturer is not an expert in everything.
They know how to make composite stuff.
Obviously in this case, they do not know enough about terminating the cable correctly for the usage.

But they do need the feedback from owners to hear of these problems.
A good supplier may even offer to upgrade the fitting to something better that they have since developed.

Again, it all comes back to good backup and honesty from the manufacturer.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Thanks RAB,

Thanks for the UV tip. I would still like to know what you (experienced with ropes) think of the play/strength of that Amsteel cord as opposed to cables.

I live on an island far-far away from any manufacturer, repair shop etc. Boat builders here wont touch surfski's as they're unknown and apparently to delicate to work on. Everything you want done over here you do yourself.

This is my 2nd set of cables. First 'termination' (as you call it) corroded away, and I crimped the 2nd set of cables myself. The material (for the crimps) used was obviously not up to scratch as it lasted around a year and a half (alternatively - and quite likely - I messed up). I must stress though that the cable is still 100% but the copper/metal crimps don't last.

Another problem is that the working space to crimp the cables and heat shrink the plastic over the crimps are particularly tight and there is not a lot of room from the point where the cable is looped and crimped to where the rudder cable enters the tube in the rear deck of the ski. If you turn the rudder either way the crimps touch the tube.

Dyneema cord is beefed up and supposedly stronger with less play than than spectra. It is also coated. I tried spectra a while ago and found it way to tender. I'll give the dyneema a go - and if it doesn't work will go back to cables, crimps and swimming.

SS

Dyneema and spectra are just different trade names for the same stuff.
It is always white as it is very hard to make it accept colour. If there is colour woven through it, it is usually just nylon woven in.

A couple of suggestions.

Have a look at any photos you can of how other ski's are done.
You may be able to create a new steerer that angles back and gives you more room to terminate?
What about simply putting on some stainless screw type clamps as in the Fenn at the pedals? That way you retain your original cabling as it obviously has no problems at the other end.
Can it be terminated the same as the other end?
Watch out for using dissimilar metals and encouraging galvanic corrosion.

If it were mine:

I would contact the maker.
I would try to keep as much as possible standard to save costs and mitigate accidentally engineering in another unseen problem.

The loose cable housing may only be a nuisance because of noise and probably will not effect the steering.

So If everything else looks good, I'd try and just re terminate with a stainless screw type clamp.
Preferably with the clamps behind the steerer, but in place of the crimp if that is the only option.

If that is not feasible, then I would move on to maybe making wholesale changes and possibly going to synthetics.

There are builders on this site; with any luck you can pry them out of their epoxy induced haze and glean some good info from them.
They will surely have the experience to recommend a good solution.

I would suggest that you at least post up the model of your boat and maybe a picture of the original steering and possibly a picture showing the failure mode.

Somebody here may already know of a way to fix it if it is a well known problem.
Good luck!

Rightarmbad wrote: Just beware that dyneema degrades rapidly in UV.

hmmmmm, it sounds very strange, here:
www.gottifredimaffioli.com/en/products/yachting/dsk_78.php
manufacturer talks about "...UV resistance of Dyneema® fibers"
I have to decide if use dyneema 3mm (around) alone or dyneema+esternal protection of polyammide (dyneema core << 3mm) as replacement of rudder lines. Now lines works well but I would buy the right replacement in advance. As backup (not tested) I keep normal polyammide lines. I think is not the proper material for lenghetening but I suppose that strenght requested to rudder lines is not so high. It could be in case of emergency if don't still have dyneema lines. Polyammide lines are completelly unusefull?

For common understanding reports also as follows (from the same site):


MATERIALS

Polyester
Polyester fibres are featured by high tenacity and good abrasion resistance. Lightweight and flexible, Polyester resists well to wrinkles and chemical/physical agents. All these characteristics, combined with the low coefficient of water absorption, make polyester ideal for a wide range of applications.

Kevlar
Kevlar® is the famous aramid fibre produced by Du Pont de Nemours. This fibre, featured by a recognisable gold yellow colour, outstands for high modulus and high heat resistance (it decomposes at over 400°C). Weight for weight, Kevlar® is 5 times stronger than steel and ensures good stability under load. This fibre
is sensitive to UV light.

Vectran
Vectran® is a high-performance multifilament yarn spun from liquid crystal polymer (LCP) produced by Kuraray Co.Ltd. This fibre exhibits good abrasion resistance, good high-temperature resistance and high tenacity and modulus. Beside ensuring minimal moisture absorption and outstanding vibration damping characteristics, Vectran® is very stable under static loads, showing negligible creep. Sensitive to UV light.

Rightarmbad wrote: Dyneema and spectra are just different trade names for the same stuff.

Dyneema
Developed and manufactured by Dutch DSM Dyneema is often confused with Spectra®, a similar material, whose performances are different. Dyneema® is a high modulus polyethylene fibre, with exceptional characteristics in terms of tenacity (weight for weight, is over ten times stronger than steel), modulus and abrasion resistance. This material, featured by a remarkable light-weight (shows a lower density than water), ensures an excellent resistance to chemicals and environmental agents, and superior durability. The only real drawback of this material is its limited resistance to temperature.

Zylon
PBO fibre, whose commercial name is Zylon®, manufactured by Toyobo Co., outstands for superior tenacity and modulus against aramid fibres and for a remarkable stability under constant load, which makes it suitable to replace steel rod for rigging. Easily recognisable by its distinctive gold colour (darker than Kevlar®), this fibre is featured by a great abrasion resistance and excellent heat-resistance, withstanding much higher temperatures than aramid fibres. PBO Zylon® is however very sensitive to UV light and moist. Caution is required for applications involving flex fatigue.

Polyamide
Polyamide is a material featured by wear resistance, good tenacity and above all, high elasticity. Polyamides fibers are suitable to all the applications where a high elastic absorption is required, such as for moorings or climbing ropes.

Technora
Available since 1987, Technora® is a very strong para-aramid fiber developed and produced exclusively by Teijin Limited. This aromatic copolyamid is ideal for dynamic performance applications involving significant motion. Strong and light: weight for weight, Technora® is 8 times stronger than steel and 3 times stronger than fiberglass,
polyester or nylon yarns. Stiff and highly oriented molecular structure leads to a high modulus of elasticity, low creep and low stress relaxation. Low thermal shrinkage, i.e., excellent dimensional stability. Technora® is highly resistant to acids, alkalis and organic solvents; not vulnerable to damage caused by steam or sea water.



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Only on the sea you are really free (Eugene O'Neill)

See below for details of Spectra

Spectra® fiber is one of the world's strongest and lightest fibers. A bright white polyethylene, it is, pound-for-pound, fifteen times stronger than steel, more durable than polyester and has a specific strength that is 40 percent greater than aramid fiber.

Spectra® fiber a polyethylene fiber that is produced using a patented gel-spinning process. Polyethylene is a remarkably durable plastic, and scientists at Honeywell have captured the tremendous natural strength in the molecular backbone of this everyday plastic to create one of the world's strongest and lightest fibers. The gel-spinning process and subsequent drawing steps allow Spectra® fiber to have a much higher melting temperature (150°C or 300°F) than standard polyethylene.

With outstanding toughness and extraordinary visco-elastic properties, Spectra® fiber can withstand high-load strain-rate velocities. Light enough to float, it also exhibits high resistance to chemicals, water, and ultraviolet light. It has excellent vibration damping, flex fatigue and internal fiber-friction characteristics, and Spectra® fiber's low dielectric constant makes it virtually transparent to radar.

Spectra® fiber is used in numerous high-performance applications, including police and military ballistic-resistant vests, helmets and armored vehicles, as well as sailcloth, fishing lines, marine cordage, lifting slings, and cut-resistant gloves and apparel. Honeywell also converts Spectra® fiber into the Spectra Shield® family of specialty composites for armor and other applications.

Spectra Fiber for Rope and Cordage

At Honeywell, our innovations, technical expertise and commitment to excellence have helped us produce manmade fibers with significant advantages over both natural fibers and wire rope. These include high strength-to-weight ratios, durability, ultraviolet light stability and overall versatility. These high performance fibers have helped increase productivity and improved workplace safety. Saving dollars. Saving lives.

The Benefits of Spectra® Fiber:
One of the highest strength to weight ratios of any manmade fiber
Outstanding toughness and extraordinary visco-elastic properties allow Spectra® fiber to withstand high-load strain-rate velocities
Light enough to float
High resistance to chemicals, water, and ultraviolet light'
Excellent vibration damping, flex fatigue and internal fiber-friction characteristics

Industrial

The inherent advantages of manmade fibers - such as high strength-to-weight ratios, durability, and overall versatility - have led to their adoption in a wide range of rope and cordage industrial applications.

Marine

Spectra® fiber is light enough to float, making it ideal for rope and cordage marine applications. And because Spectra® fiber is hydrophobic, it will not absorb moisture or deteriorate in water.

Offshore

Honeywell has more than 15 years of experience in the offshore industry and has created leading fiber technologies in safety and rescue ropes.

Recreational

Spectra® fiber-based ropes are used in extreme sport climbing.

Dyneema® is an UHMwPE fiber. DSM invented it 20 years ago and it's been in production since 1990. The fiber is incredibly versatile with virtually limitless applications. The fiber is manufactured by means of a gel-spinning process that combines extreme strength with incredible softness. So what are the properties that make this fiber so special?

High strength/low weight – Dyneema® is 15 times stronger than steel, and 40% stronger than aramids on a weight-for-weight basis.
Low specific gravity (0.97) - Dyneema® floats on water and is ideal for lightweight solutions.
Excellent chemical resistance - Dyneema® is chemically inert, and independent studies have confirmed that Dyneema® performs well in dry, wet, salty and humid conditions, as well as other situations where chemicals are present.
UV resistant – Products made with Dyneema® fiber show strong resistance to photo degradation when exposed to UV light. The high UV resistance of the fiber ensures continuing high performance.
Moisture resistant - Dyneema® fiber is hydrophobic. It resists water absorption, providing an extra level of protection and durability.
High durability - Dyneema® fiber can withstand the harshest environments for a longer time. This is due to its inherent strength, and its resistance to many damaging chemical agents..

Dyneema® derives its enormous strength from a proprietary gel-spinning process that results in extremely long, straight polymer chains. This exceptionally strong material is available in four major types.

For all intensive purposes these products are both gel spun polyethylene fibre with much the same physical characteristics. Low stretch, high abrasion resistance, UV resistant, etc..

If all you can get is fishing line then try and get the fishing braid - it will be made from the same spectra fibres. You may need to use quite a few strands to increase the strength.