Untenable seat situation, selling v12

Hi guys,

Sorry to keep airing my newbie struggles here on the forum, but I'm incredibly frustrated with my "seat situation" right now. It's to the point that I'm thinking seriously about selling my surfski (I need a less advanced surfski, anyway, if I'm going to stick with it) and maybe switching back to standup paddleboarding exclusively.

It seems like to no matter what kind of seat padding arrangement and double-layered spandex shorts I use, I can rarely make it through even a 30 minute session on my 2009 Epic v12 without giving myself raw chafing welts and coccyx bruises that keep me off the water and grouchily uncomfortable in chairs for days afterwards. If I paddle two days in a row it's a GUARANTEE of welts and broken skin.

I'm beginning to think there's just something different between how my rear-end is constructed and how the rear-ends of people who tolerate surfski paddling are constructed. Maybe my hips and lower spine connect at a different angle? Maybe my coccyx knobs are bigger or less deeply buried in the flesh than on a normal person? Maybe my bum cleavage is deeper higher up so it rubs more? Maybe my skin is sensitive? Maybe all of the above? I'm recalling that similar travails turned me off from a brief foray into long-distance bicycling years ago.

I know there are some people who just can't be runners because of issues with the way their feet or knees are built. I wonder if it's like that with surfski, but with the butt instead of the feet and knees. Some people have a kayak-compatible butt and some don't? I assume if you're on this forum you either don't have terrible butt issues, or you've overcome them. But have you ever encountered people who were eager and stoked to put in the time to learn surfski, but were ultimately defeated by never being able to overcome the butt problems thing?

Thanks,
James

PS- If anybody in South Florida wants an Epic v12 in C+ condition, I'd sell it for $300, plus $100 for the new DK weedless rudder I got for it.

Douglass, you will encounter many paddlers who are totally incompatible with one brand of ski, but happy as a clam on a different model. So don't give up hope. I for instance cannot tolerate Fenn buckets. Epic and Think, no problem. Sold an allwave CX to a buddy because I could not get comfy in it regardless of padding, and he reports it's "the most comfortable bucket I've ever sat in".

You will have more wiggle room if you get a more stable boat, since you will be able to customize padding and make it thicker if need without reducing stability too much. So try different boats in the intermediate range before you call it quits.

If I employ my normal (v12) padding setup in a Fenn bucket, I get chafe, cramps, numb leg. So the shape of the bucket is most important variable, padding is just minor adjustment in comparison.

Being able to get comfortable is certainly important, and surf skis are not the most comfortable to begin with. I have found that putting a Skwoosh pad directly under my bottom really decreases the rub. Another option is wearing DeckBeater sailing shorts. The only problem with DeckBeaters is that the outer material is a bit "grippy" and makes it a little harder to get good rotation. I totally agree with the suggestion to try other brand skis. If you enjoy paddling sitting down, I would also suggest that you consider paddling a good quality Fast Sea Kayak like the 18' Epic or Stellar boats. The seats are far more comfortable than any ski and the boats are quite competitive speed wise with beginner skis.

I had the same issue in one ski I tried, many others were fine. So don't give up hope! Riding surfskis is just a too much fun sport to give up early!

But concerning your problem: might that also be a question of stability/ technique? If I get unstable, I tend to try to get halt by pressing too much against the footrest to wedge myself into the bucket, building up pressure and at the same time interfering with the free movement needed for proper rotation. (To make proper sitting easier (?)) e.g. the Vajda skis even have a bucket similar to the seats in a K 1, with a distinct free space behind the back.

Some people just don't tolerate certain skis. But if I ever have issues I usually rub vasoline (petroleum jelly) on the site before every paddle and that usually settles it down. I used to find I rubbed most before my back got wet and the friction on the wet glass was still high. The Vaseline works every time for me.

Hey d0uglass,

Do you have any video or photos of yourself taken from side-on when you're paddling?

Could you post them?

From what you're describing, it's possible there maybe a posture issue...

Do you have tight hamstrings? Do you do leg stretches each time before paddling?

As others have said, different skis have different bucket shapes and that has an impact on comfort, but it's worth examining other potential issues before changing skis or you might find the problem still persists (to a greater or lesser extent) with other skis as well.

Hmm, yes, my instability might be causing me to wedge myself against the back of the seat too hard. But I can't imagine not having my bum make any contact with the back of the seat, since gravity naturally slides me back and down the sloping seat to the lowest point. Maybe other cockpits are different. Is there a trick to doing "leg drive" without pressing and rubbing your bum into the back of the seat?

I haven't tried Vaseline yet, but I will. I hope my wife understands.

I feel your pain. I too have a terrible ass when it comes to surfskis. If the seat is not comgortable, then power, balance, and fun all suffer. I have bought and sold fenn elite S as well as v12 G2 because of bucket issues. I envy those guys with narrow butts and loose hamstrings who are comfortable in any ski.

If you are chaffing the upper buttocks against the back of the bucket, it may help to have a pad on the bottom only that does not come up the back of the bucket. That may afford you some space. Maybe you have tried that already.

In theory the paddle stroke should not push the butt back into the seat at all, though I have always found it a little tough to wrap my head around the mechanics of that.

Definitely shouldn't be putting force on the back of the bucket with good technique. If this is happening, it means you're not getting all the force from the footboard into the paddle (or if you prefer, from the paddle into the footboard)- you have a "leak", and your leg drive isn't synching up with the power in the stroke. If this is happening to you, then don't kick so hard on the footplate, no sense just mashing your ass against the back of the bucket.

Or alternatively, kick hard, but really focus on solid grip on the water and close that force loop between paddle and feet with no leaks out the back of your butt.

If you are not exclusively paddling in downwind conditions, you may want to try a K1 trainer to keep you on the water. There is K1 availability near you in the Fort Meyers area. If you are dedicated to surfing swells, then find another brand that works for you. It's like finding the right bicycle seat...
I'm not certain that rotation and leg drive are priorities until stability issues are taken care of. People look at pro K1 sprint athletes and try to mimic them on a ski, which is hard to achieve on most ski buckets. It can be achieved (in a more subtle way) with a lot of bucket time. For now, try less subtle movements while maintaining footplate contact if that is the problem.

Hello! I am new to surfski too, and with the same sup racing background as you.
I'm paddling a Fenn Swordfish S, and I'm pretty comfy in it...
Thing is, prior to this ski, I paddled the old swordfish, old Blue Fin, and a Mazu Fitness , and past 30 min, i suffered a lot. I too thought about quitting surfskiing and keep only suping.
But then tried the swordfish S, and it suddenly felt much better. From then on, it keeps improving.
So I think you should try more skis... I too thought something was wrong with my bum/back!!!!!
Don't give up without trying more!!!

I would put my money on technique. Perhaps you're not compatible with the Epic bucket, that's possible too. When I started in my Nelo 510 I could not understand how anybody could paddle in there for more than about 45 minutes. I could only last an hour by adding a seat pad and wearing 2mm neoprene. And I had to make pauses and change position, etc.

At some point this stopped being a real issue. I'd be able to make minor sitting adjustments while paddling and outings of 1-1/2 to 2hrs was OK. Then I lost the seat pad. To my surprise I discovered that it made no real difference, I was just as comfy without! I then upgraded to a Nelo 550 and so far haven't bothered putting a seatpad in and switching from 2mm Neoprene to 0.5mm is totally fine as well (before I definitely noticed the difference). All this has happened over the past 5 months.

I believe that PSwitzer's post is right on the mark for me. But it took lots of outings to tune all this up, it's not like you can "just do it"... Given that you're in an unstable boat it probably takes longer...

dOuglass, I sent you a private message, but not sure that feature works correctly (never received a reply from another guy I sent one to). Anyway, I’ll buy your V12 if we can figure out logistics. If you ever get north of Tampa while I am in Destin, maybe we could meet somewhere. Or I have a ski being transported from Miami soon and he could maybe swing to west side of state to pick it up. Either way, let me know what you think. Btw, is ski watertight? Do not so much care about outward appearance. Thanks, Mike 205-915-3110

For me, the feeling of pressure points in my big end is a reminder to pay attention to my posture, my default being like the proverbial sack of potatoes.
Having your footbrace too close can add to pressure at the back of the seat.
I started using a Skwoosh pad in my ski and am a lot more comfortable with that. The downside to a pad is that raising your seat reduces stability.
For preventative lubrication Body Glide beats Vaseline, IMHO.
Plus what everyone else says.

Hi Mickey- I'm sorry the v12 sold almost the instant I put it up on facebook.