Boat length and weight questions after 1st race

I did my first surfski race on Saturday and did OK for a newbie. Capsized once and averaged 10.6 kph over 8.9 km in flat to slightly choppy conditions.

www.strava.com/activities/1672198843

There was no way I could keep up with my experienced South African kayaker buddy in his 590 cm Knysna Rhythm. He's just way more efficient and powerful than me, even when I'm busting my butt and he's just cruising. But I outpaced my similarly inexperienced American buddy in his 550 cm Nelo.

Tried the Knysna after the race and it felt light and slippery through the water, but a no-go for me because it was even less stable than the 2009 Epic v12 that I already struggle on when it's choppy. (The Nelo 550 guy was keeping pace or slightly gaining on me in the ocean side-chop leg of the race, suggesting that lack of stability limits my speed in choppy water.)

South African buddy commented that my black nose epic (which was his before he got the Knysna) felt quite heavy and that I'd likely gain a lot of speed by investing in a lighter boat. I also wonder if a shorter boat would help, too, since I'm just 75 kg. What do y'all think?

My ideal boat would be:
*Less than 20' long so it can fit in my shed
*No less stable than the v12; preferably a bit more stable
*Significantly lighter than the black nosed v12
*Not too much slower than the v12 in the flat water where I paddle most

Either the Epic V10L in a lighter layup or a Nelo 550M or ML would be appropriate.

Quick answer: No, a lighter boat will not make you go faster. (though for some, it may, see below).

Reasoning: you could put Oscar in a V7 and he would still beat the majority of paddlers. Why? Perfect form, perfect stability, intuitive wave reading, years of experience. The weight of the pro's boats probably only reduces time on a 2 hour race in the order of <1%. Probably less than that, like 0.3%

As you are new and in an tippy boat, you are 1000% more limited by stability and form more than your boat's weight. On the list of "things that make you go faster" the weight of your boat is near the bottom.

The exception may be, a lighter boat accelerates onto a wave easier, so if you are missing waves (but all other things are in sync), a lighter and possibly shorter boat may help with this. However, I do not think this is the case for you, because if you are unstable and miss a paddle stroke, that is preventing you from getting on the wave 100x more than 7 lbs of weight.

I forget if it was oscar or the Mockes who said "if you are bracing more than once every 10 minutes in a downwind you should be in a more stable boat". It sounds like you are still getting the stability down in flat to small conditions, so you have many other things limiting your speed.

A shorter boat has less skin resistance, so if you are not at hull speed (which few people really achieve for any significant period of time), a shorter boat is faster for most people, and its inherently lighter (less material), and it rides short interval waves better (surfs wind waves better), so length is worth looking at and possibly considering a shorter boat.

In general, the V12 is already an elite boat and you will only see very small speed gains from a newer hull or lighter boat. Stay focused on Stability training and Form. Both of those will pay dividends much faster and much more than 7lbs.

Also, compared to the rest of us, South Africans, Australians, and maybe the kiwi's have a different definition of "stable" and "fast". down there babies are born into Olympic K1's I think. for the rest of us, we just scratch our heads and swim

%loss of speed = 1/6(% increase in mass)

Lets say you and your ski together weigh 200 pounds. You shell out $US 4500 for a carbon boat that is 10 pounds lighter. That is a 5% change in total mass, which will translate into a 0.83% speed improvement, or about 30 seconds over an hour of racing. How valuable are those 30 seconds to you?

On the other hand lighter boats are tippier, both because they float higher (narrower waterline) and because there is less inertia for the waves to overcome as they push around the tip and tail of the boat. So if stability is a limiting factor, you might actually go slower in a lighter boat.

If you want to go faster you would be better off not splurging on the carbon boat, and instead investing a small fraction of that mobey in coaching. The same could be said of myself, by the way, and probably almost everyone on this forum. But we still pine after the next flavor of carbon race ski.

MCImes wrote:
I forget if it was oscar or the Mockes who said "if you are bracing more than once every 10 minutes in a downwind you should be in a more stable boat".

This could be a counterproductive advice for a beginner, as in surfski you basically keeping bracing as long as you surf, so the majority of the downwind. Oscar is on record for saying that the brace is the most important stroke for downwind, and that he is constantly practising it. The quote should rather mean 'if you are afraid more than once in ten minutes to really capsize ...'

Impala I think the issue is that there are two definitions of “brace” out there. The surfing brace that acts like an outrigger vs the slap brace that prevents a sudden capsize. You refer to the former, MCImes to the latter.

As to boat weight vs resistance:

Kayakfoundry, a kayak design software, 'claims' that 2 kg less displacement make you faster by 0.1 km/h at speeds around 12 km/h. This seems small and is not relevant for a beginner, but if you really want to win the race it can very well make the difference.

A leading Dutch K1 and surfski paddler reported after testing that the difference between his 12 kg sprint K1 and his 8 kg Marathon K1 is 0.5 km/h at a speed around 13km/h, so more than double the speed gain the design software predicts.

No idea whether the latter is exaggerated, but it may well be that at higher speeds and a hull form allowing for it, dynamic lift (pushing the boat a bit out of the water into a half-glide) becomes more important, which is easier to obtain with a lighter boat.

Here is a well put together australian piece combining various theoretical models along with retrospective data from rowing races (with and without coxswai) and an experiment with various amounts if weight added to icf kayaks. Their conclusion is that the 1% change in mass = 1/6% change in speed is fairly accurate. So that would align with carbon skis being 30 seconds faster than fiberglass skis per hour of racing.

www.lcrk.org.au/pmwiki/uploads/Main/WeightEffect.pdf

Zach, so according to your rule of thumb, to gain 0.1 km/h you would have to get rid of 5kg at a total displacement of around 99 kg. Very conservative indeed, and it makes me wonder why light boats are prized to so high nevertheless.

But the testing on which that is based seems solid, so all the better. My recent experience with a new hybrid ski (without hump) was that when I filled the cockpit to the water line (~10kg of water?), I did not at all have to feeling to get more slow, rather to the contrary. I then realized that the water slowed me down a bit, but also made me faster by improving the trim of the boat, with both effects cancelling each other out, possibly.

So bottom line is, don't waste money on too light boats (best value for money is probably the intermediate quality) ...??

All of this pertains to flat water racing at steady speed. I think that downwind the lighter boats are potentially faster than the formula would predict, because they accelerate better. Every time that acceleration makes the difference between catching a wave or not, it is a big deal.

But realistically the biggest advantage of light boats for most of us is preserving our aging backs and shoulders as we lug the boats between garage, car, and water.

Thanks for the input, guys. Would you say this list of things that might make me faster, in order of most to least speed gains offered, is accurate?

#1- More training and practice.
#2- More stable boat (moves up to #1 if the water is rough)
#3- Reducing boat length
#4- Reducing boat weight

I had an encouraging practice paddle last night where I was able to average 11.5 kph over 6.4 km in flat water, focusing on some of the stroke technique tips I've gotten from y'all.

www.strava.com/activities/1679363824

Zachhandler and MCImes are correct imho... fitness, form and stability trump boat weight several times over. Like on a bike, the guy that’s dropping you early is not doing that because his bike is 2 lbs lighter. Also, like a bike... the guy on the a $3500 17lbs carbon wonder bike that is 20lbs over weight is getting nearly nothing from his couple of lbs off the bike. You are a new paddler... 99.8% (pulled that number out of my ass) of your speed increases will be from fitness, form and stability. Take that new boat money and get some coaching... that will be a MUCH better investment. Way too much emphasis is put on the boat.
If you insist on getting a new ski (nothing wrong with that, just get one for the right reasons)... get a more stable ski.

d0uglass, Congrats on your first race. I would also add "do more races" to your list. There is a lot t be learned from watching more experienced paddlers. There are three races coming up in FL that I am aware of. FCPA Mere Mortals Race at Suwanee River State Park - 28 July, Space Coast Paddlefest in Melbourne on 9 Sept and FCPA Ocklawahaa River Race at Gore's Landing in the Ocala National Forrest - 15 Sept.