Flatwater Performance Potential of Epic V7

Hello everyone,

I'm brand new to the forum and to the sport. I've had an interest in surfski for a while now and finally took the plunge a few weeks ago and purchased an Epic V7. I come from a non-paddling background, so besides a little sea kayaking (a handful of sessions, all close to shore, < 5 miles per session) here and there over the years, I have very little experience or frame of reference when it comes to the paddling sports. That being said, I do have a lengthy background as an endurance athlete (runner, cyclist and triathlete) and competed successfully as a pro/elite for a number of years as a triathlete.

I've been exceptionally happy with the V7 and am absolutely loving the boat and the sport. As a former competitor, I never enjoyed the sea kayaks I paddled as I found them to be too slow. I've been having a BLAST cruising around in the V7 and also feel MUCH safer on it vs. a SIK. I'm a teacher, so I've been getting out almost daily these past few weeks thanks to summer vacation. We also live just 80 meters from the ocean, so I can paddle whenever I'd like to

I happen to live right on the Blackburn Challenge race course. My goal is to participate in it next year, along with some other local surfski events. I'm getting more and more comfortable in the boat and am focusing all of my efforts on laying an aerobic foundation while concurrently working on my stroke, balance, etc. I've already seen some nice progress, but would love to get a better idea as to what I can/should expect out of my boat from a performance perspective.

I'm 41 years old, 5'11" and a little over 170 pounds at the moment. All of my sessions to date have been 6 - 8 miles of ocean paddling (relatively calm conditions), very comfortable/aerobic. No interval work or even tempo. I'm extending out as I go and venturing further out on the Blackburn course each week. I have been averaging 6.1 mph on all of my aerobic paddles (avg. HR in the 110s - 120s range) and tonight cruised along at a 6.24 mph avg. for 6 miles with an avg. HR of 134 bpm (had to fight the current a bit on the way home). I know that these are not elite training paces by an means, and I am also very aware of the fact that I am going to have to put a good 2 - 3 years of work in before I am in position to have a chance to race well on a local level, but I'm hoping to gain a little perspective on what I should expect out of the V7.

For a non-elite/professional level paddler (family and career come first now, so I'll never be able to train the way I used to), is this a boat that has the capacity to hammer along at 7 mph average for 10 - 30k on flattish water? If not, any advice as to when I should consider moving up to a boat that has that kind of potential (i.e. when I am averaging in the upper 6 mph range for my steady aerobic paddles?)? I am fully aware that the longer, sleeker boats are also a lot less stable, so my thinking is that the next boat purchase would most likely be something along the lines of a V8 Pro or V10S.

I bought the V7 with the intention of keeping it long term as it's a boat that I'll use playing in the surf, when paddling through really rocky areas etc. It'll also be a great boat for my wife and kids when and if they're ready to get into the paddle sports. I also purchased it knowing that I would be upgrading within a year if I really got into the sport, and I see that happening for sure. Like cycling and bikes, I am getting the sense that once you really get into this sport, you end up with a bunch of skis

Any and all advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

scroll down the link ( lokal dealer V7 trials of last year, flat water, all kinds of normal paddlers testing out the v7) to the mens table at the bottom, course length 9.61km , this year done with the 510 btw
v1.kanuschule-bodensee.ch/?navID=120 means 10.5km/h (10 km Course) would readily be achieveable for an ambitious beginner dep. on strength/fitness/technique within a season. imo.
if you need to convert km/min to something else www.onlineconversion.com/speed_all.htm

I'm sure the V7 should be able to "hammer along at 7 mph."

But, the best advice I could give you is to go to one of the NE races and / or hook up with those guys - or contact Chris, Wesley, or Tim - who do all the races. They'll answer all your questions, and should be able to have you try a "next level up" ski, that shouldn't be too unstable for you. With your gps, you'll immediately see any speed difference - or not - but it might allow you to extrapolate out to what your speed might be in a V8, V10, etc. Subsequent discussions and interactions with that crew should answer your questions of speed expectation from the V7, and allow you to understand what the progression up to the faster hulls should be like - and also what you might expect from the V7.
EBorgnes

It's great to hear you are loving the sport. It's truly booming here in the states now (I'm a spoiled Bellingham paddler). Some good advice shared with you already, and I'd ad that the V7 is a gateway ski (high utility, stability).

The development of surfski skills is a bit like a hockey stick graph, where the fundamentals take a while, and then the progress to more challenging ski and conditions accelerates. If and when you upgrade, you'll notice the huge difference a lighter ski makes in acceleration, and the difference a narrower longer waterline makes in glide (the boats ability to keep speed going). There are other big difference, but those two are the most pronounced. My own observation having just done a casual "race" in a V7 is that I could get actually get it up to my elite ski race pace, but keeping it there becomes very "expensive".

Another argument for upgrading besides race results is that a super stable ski can become a crutch and actually slow down your progression as a paddler. Learning the finer points of balance and form without a ski that pushes you is pretty much impossible (and is why so many sea kayakers I've met are shocked when they paddle a ski for the first time... If I had a buck for every time I've heard "I thought I had great balance?!").

Lastly, if you can scrape a little budget and time together for a trip to one of the big North American races at some point, you can attend clinics with the top pros and paddle (safely) in conditions that will help you make lightyears of progress in a week (talking specifically about the Gorge and Canadian Surfski Champs).

Cheers, -Cryder / fasterfarther.com

I found going straight from a thin sea kayak to an elite ski to be the perfect decision for me. The learning curve was tough but once the balance was mastered the technical aspects of paddling would be the same as if I had purchased a beginner ski. The Think Uno Max was a great ski to start off on.

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone!

Sounds like the V7 will serve me well for the time being as I work to improve on the basics and get a better sense for the realities of the sport.

Cryder: You make a great point about super stable boats like the V7 vs. the sleeker, (potentially) faster skis:

Another argument for upgrading besides race results is that a super stable ski can become a crutch and actually slow down your progression as a paddler. Learning the finer points of balance and form without a ski that pushes you is pretty much impossible

I plan on paddling throughout the fall and part of the winter as well, so the V7's stability will most certainly come in handy once the water and air temperatures drop, but I agree that over-reliance upon it's super high degree of stability could make the transition into an intermediate boat, and the skills one needs to master it, a lot more challenging.

Erik: I've already hooked up with one of the top regional guys (GL) who lives a couple of towns over. He has been super helpful in pointing me in the right direction in regards to boat purchase and even went out of his way to meet up with me to help me with my stroke, drills etc. Ed Duggan of the Kayak Learning Center, who sold me the boat and paddle, has also been very helpful.

Lots to learn and lots of hours to log, but I look forward to the challenge and am thoroughly enjoying the process.

Thanks again.

Paddling an elite boat on an inland "fresh water" pond is a whole different ballgame than paddling the same ski in "salt water" ocean. Just no comparison.
Salt water being much heavier and more buoyant than fresh water.

It's still an elite ski and water vs water isn't that different. I grew up on salt water.
While yes, I normally paddle flatwater large lakes can be rough. Shipwrecks happen in freshwater too.

Saltwater is more dense than freshwater. For example, the density of freshwater in the Mississippi River in southern Louisiana is 0.999. The density of saltwater at Japanese ports is 1.025. Due to the more dense/heavier water in Japan, the vessel will automatically rise about 11.4 inches (29 centimeters).

Welcome to the sport, sounds like you're off to a great start.

I'd add that I wouldn't pin your performance completely on speeds or boat type. Being able to pick/surf your way through the waves also has a huge bearing on how you go, especially in smaller waves where they may actually be moving slower than you can theoretically paddle!

We've had some very fast marathon paddlers out in V7s locally and in small waves they wear themselves out trying to paddle up the back of the wave in front - so we keep having to stop and wait for them.

Enjoy

I'm in the same boat - (literally and figuratively) - although I'm 34 and am a tad taller and leaner by 10 lbs - no history of being an athlete

My first two times out paddling my v7 - only on flat water - local lake - I didn't crack 6mph

Had online coaching session (video critique) and found several flaws in my stroke to work on...if you can find an instructor.

I was impressed by your 6+mph avg as a noob!!

I think your intuition is correct about when it makes the most sense to change to a faster hull. I can't give you stats or graphs or anything, but generally speaking the speed benefits of a long skinny hull are not apparent at low speeds. In fact at low speeds a short wide hull is actually faster because at those speeds most resistance is from skin friction rather than wave generation. i think that it is at speeds faster than 7 mph where the speed advantages of the long skinny hulls really become pronounced.

Also boat weight does not really affect flat water cruising speed. I did the math once and going from 34 pound fg boat to a 27 pound kevlar one saves only 15 seconds over the course of an hour. Weight makes a bigger difference when it comes to acceleration such as trying to catch a wave going downwind. The main benefit of a light boat in my opinion is preventing shoulder and back injuries when you are carrying the boat off the water.