Surf ski's for shorter paddlers

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8 years 9 months ago #20410 by Westley
Hi

Having very short legs and vertically challenged I find it frustrating paddling ski's that are made for giants. Sure you can adjust the foot length but this doesn't shift the Weight. I ended up with an Stellar SES built for shorter guys and feel great in it. I hear the new EpicV10L is pretty good as well but I wanted a fast and very stable ski.

I went for a Kiwi boat, the Flow (Superstar) and I have to say it is a brilliant performer in the bump but one issue - it is made for big long folks. Today I padded the back a good two inches forward and that seemed to shift the entire weight of the boat. It felt incredible more powerful as if I am now pulling the boat rather than pushing it (if that makes sense)

My question is how to make big people seats shift more forward - is there a solution out there or do I just continue to build in an feds inches on the back?

By the way check out Rob's latest video downwind of miller run 9:06 - pretty sure that is a rather large sharks fin and Rob completely didn't see it!!

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8 years 9 months ago #20411 by Westley
So, for example in Epics v10L - has the weight been shifted further forward or further back to accommodate the shorter paddler as com paired to the v10? I suspect forward?

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8 years 9 months ago #20412 by Kayaker Greg
Westley, I'm not tall either and have an SES, fits me perfect but for something more stable I paddle both an SEL and a Swordfish. Both skis I moved myself forward with a custom seat, the SEL in particular needed this to work for me, however as I'm now only 71kg the whole ski is too big for me in all respects.
The Swordfish however feels just right, does not feel like a large ski and my weight is moved only slightly forward with the seat I made. Initially I moved myself about 50mm forward in the Swordfish but found I just wasn't getting the best out of it, the weight was too far forward, now I'm guessing but I think my weight is probably only moved forward about 15mm and I get a lot more out the the ski, its easier to get the nose up and the ski moving through the water like its designed to be. It took me a long time to get the seat just right and comfortable but now I can paddle it for hours on end without discomfit and it fits me like a glove.
So I can't comment on what they have done with the new V10L (the old one had the seat moved forward from the factory compared to the V10) but I think for us smaller folks it is of benefit to move our seating position forward a little.
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8 years 9 months ago #20416 by Ranga
Hi, the new V10L is nothing like the V10 it is a totally new ski specifically designed for the lighter paddler (75kg). It is also an elite ski.
I suspect! the seat is in the correct place.

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8 years 9 months ago #20418 by Westley
Hey Ranga, I have no doubt the v10l seat is in the correct place. What I was asking was where is it in relation to the seat position of the v10 - I suspect it is further forward?

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8 years 9 months ago #20419 by Westley
I put a thick paddled in the ski today and took it for a spin, it was awesome!, I wish all skis could come with a seat insert, amazing.

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8 years 9 months ago #20420 by Ranga
Sorry not with you Westley, the V10L is a shorter and narrower ski how can you determine anything between the two skis with such different stats. The ski is made for smaller paddlers from the outset.
The old V10 and V10L had the same hull therefore you could compare seat position, not so with the new, they will be balanced as per their own hull shapes.

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8 years 9 months ago #20421 by Metro
Hi Wes. Yes, like the original V10L, the seat on the new V10L is moved forward (as compared to the new V10). Tony King of Epic Aus told me how much, but it escapes me now. In any event, (i) it is noticeable, you feel very much on top of the nose of the ski and (ii) if the exact positioning is important to you, give Tony a ring.

The new V10L is very stable in my opinion. Much more so than the original V10L. No comparison. I think that folks will be pleasantly surprised by this boat.

Now, the best short person's boat (again in my opinion) is the Nelo Ocean M (for medium). I am 5-8 (172cm) and I cannot fit in it! Not enough travel on the footboard.

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8 years 9 months ago #20422 by barrypaddle1
Thanks Metro for that clear answer. I have been following Wesleys recent post with interest as many shorter paddlers understand what he means.

Shorter does not always equate to lighter so a "balanced" hull shape does not always apply if you feel like your pushing uphill because the seat and/or hump is keeping you back.

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8 years 9 months ago #20423 by Westley
Thanks metro that makes sense. I am going to get a couple of those round foam swimming sticks and find a balance point with my tall mate Bruce in his boat then sit in it myself to see what the difference is, I suspect it will be revealing, but as I said, after move the seat forward - it feels a dream. No longer feel like I am paddling in concrete but rather paddling with power. More to com

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8 years 9 months ago #20425 by Ric
Replied by Ric on topic Surf ski's for shorter paddlers
... interesting ...

I hadn't considered moving my whole seating position forward before. But I do often wonder about the balance when my feet are nearly on the shortest setting available.

Will have to have another look at the seat modifications to see how I can apply them to my boat.

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8 years 9 months ago #20427 by gwynnd
I believe the Fenn Spark is great for smaller paddlers. Anyone have any comments - particularly paddlers who have switched from 'normal skis' to smaller ones.

Interesting topic for the 'little' people.

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8 years 9 months ago #20428 by Ric
Replied by Ric on topic Surf ski's for shorter paddlers
It is an awesome boat for smaller paddlers, but you left out one part of the name...

"Elite".

I am not able to paddle it in the conditions I would like to go out in - maybe next year.

There are some great reviews elsewhere on this site.
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8 years 9 months ago #20430 by [email protected]
According to Epic, the seat on the V10L is "2 inches" forward of the V10's seat.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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8 years 9 months ago #20431 by Westley
Yes you should experiment - the suppliers are selling a one size fits all model and if you are a fair way out of that size then it can't be set up right. I too was right at the end of the footplate - that is a good 6" from where others have their feet so must be 6" of the centre of weight point - makes sense.

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8 years 9 months ago #20432 by Westley
Interesting Rob - that is how far I moved mine and it now feels fantastic

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8 years 9 months ago #20435 by Westley
Ok went paddling this morning and killed it! Went quicker than ever and went as quickly as anyone else in our group even though I was on a ski built for bump and it was dead flat - so basically IT WORKS! More details to follow but I just used Duct tape and some slices out of a yoga mat and some stuffing from a life vest that was in the garage. It took 20 minutes and now I have a killer ski!! Go the short guys!!!

In the pics you can see where I was entering the water with my paddle and now where I enter - that and the weight balance is the key. I haven't done the balance test yet but will report on that later

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8 years 9 months ago #20436 by uk_exile
Westley, you say short legs & short overall, how short ? I'm 71kg, 172cm however relatively long legs. Reason is I paddle a Rockstar, the Flow hull which then had new deck designed & became the Superstar. Obviously I can move my seat relatively easily so was thinking about experimenting with seat postion. I do notice quite a stability difference if lean back vs straight upright or slight leans forwards. When I was fitting my drink system I asked Flow & both Richard & Andrew said either behind or in front of seat ok as hull has enough bouancy in rear & lift at front to cope with either postion. I tested & fitted it in front due to stability difference. Didn't noticed speed difference but then I didn't test on flat water. Generally it's used in rivers flowing 5 - 20kph.

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8 years 9 months ago #20437 by ajgsurfing
Westley , did the padding setup affect your rotation ?

i have attempted padding up the rear and bottom of my seat in a swordfish , it felt much more comfortable but i have had issue in the padding coming loose and it feeling like it affects rotation .

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8 years 9 months ago #20438 by Marieski
Hi Gwynnd. Yep, the Spark is fabulous for smaller paddlers. Smaller in my case means 168 cm and 56kg. It is in fact the very first ski I've ever had which fits me and the feeling is AMAZING. (For you larger people, what you feel like all the time.) The old V10L was stil too much displacement, despite the seat being further forward. My SES now feels like it has too much displacement, it being the closest I could get preSpark. And the cockpit feels waaay too big now.

But yes Ric, I definitely take your point about Elite. It is pretty lively! On the other hand, it feels so much more controllable because the cockpit is so snug, it sits closer to the design waterline and the windage is reduced compared to all the other skis I've had that I am motivated to keep pushing the boundaries of the conditions I take it out in. After all, there is no comparable intermediate or beginner ski.

Now if only Fenn would make a Spark Swordfish....

Past skis: Spirit PRS, EpicV10Sport Performance, Epic V10 Elite, Stellar SES Advantage. Current skis: Fenn Elite Spark, Fenn Swordfish vacuum. Custom Horizon, Epic V7
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