freak'n a$$ rt shoulder really ticking me off

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11 years 9 months ago #13692 by 1xsculler
Activity limiting injuries are depressing especially for us old dudes. If I ice my rt. shoulder for 10 to 20 minutes X 2 after each 30 minute session I do pretty well but when I extend it out to 3200m, about 45 minutes for me at this stage, about three weeks into my surfsking endeavor, my shoulder doesn't calm down completely for a day or two. I'm almost considering surgery to clean things up in there but I also really don't want to go backwards.
When I first started rowing, seven years ago, I went through the same thing and, eventually, after three years of icing I didn't have to ice any more and I had no problem.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.

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11 years 9 months ago #13697 by water2deep
hey
Your shoulders may be playing up for a few reasons. as you might know your shoulders are shallow ball and socket joints and rely on the muscular support from your rotator-cuff to maintain stability when using your arms especially when high loads are experienced ( such as paddling and rowing or throwing a ball.

so have a physio,osteo or sports doc assess your rotator-cuff strength and also make sure your scapula( shoulder blade ) stabilisation and mobility is up to scratch. it might just take a bit of targeted strengthening to sort you out.

Then I would say, get your paddling technique checked out so you not overdoing the arm movement during your stroke.

my 2 cents

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11 years 9 months ago #13701 by [email protected]
I have exactly the same problem right now with a niggling rotator cuff problem.

I've had multiple sessions of physio and have been given exercises to do with a theraband to activate and build the other muscles around the joint.

I also had advice from Oscar Chalupsky on developing better rotation in my stroke.

But... if I paddle on flat water, even for some distance, the shoulder doesn't seem to mind. But when I do a downwind run (as last night), then the rotator cuff seems to flare up a bit.

I saw a shoulder specialist and had X-rays/scan. He said that the inflammation is visible but small and recommended continuing with physio. Next step would be a cortisone shot into the joint to reduce the inflammation.

This thing is not desperately painful - but it is extremely irritating.

Rob

Currently Fenn Swordfish S, Epic V10 Double.
Previously: Think Evo II, Carbonology Zest, Fenn Swordfish, Epic V10, Fenn Elite, Red7 Surf70 Pro, Epic V10 Sport, Genius Blu, Kayak Centre Zeplin, Fenn Mako6, Custom Kayaks ICON, Brian's Kayaks Molokai, Brian's Kayaks Wedge and several others...

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11 years 9 months ago #13703 by Rightarmbad
Answer: short paddle, lower loads, must rotate, lower shoulder angle.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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11 years 9 months ago #13720 by owenw

1xsculler wrote: Activity limiting injuries are depressing especially for us old dudes.

Growing old is a bastard, but it is much better than the only alternative :lol: I'm fast approaching 70, suffer from Chondrocalcinosis (CPPD) in my shoulders but still paddle 4-5 times per week and regularly race.
My pain is greatest when I don't paddle correctly with proper body rotation. This is especially noticeable when out "social" paddling in my sea kayak or when doing lots of manoeuvring strokes such as when "rock gardening". However, when racing I have very little problem. The obvious difference is in the technique! When racing I'm using a correct, fully rotated, core powered stroke; but when I'm out in a more "relaxed mode" I'm obviously using much more arm/shoulder action. Luckily, a dose of "vitamin I" (ibuprofen) usually sets me good.

Life truly lived is full of risk; to fence out risk is to fence out life itself

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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #13725 by 1xsculler
Thanks for the informative replies. I didn't think I was alone with this issue.

current skis: SES Ultra. sculling boats: Fluidesign Lwt, Wintech, Empacher.
Last edit: 11 years 9 months ago by 1xsculler. Reason: spelling

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11 years 9 months ago #13744 by sAsLEX
Handstand pushups (Eventually) will work the rotator cuff muscles and assist the stability of the joint.

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11 years 9 months ago #13745 by Physio

sAsLEX wrote: Handstand pushups (Eventually) will work the rotator cuff muscles and assist the stability of the joint.

Not too mention the surgery you will need.. .
But I suppose you won't notice after you knock yourself out dropping on your head.

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11 years 9 months ago #13752 by garykroukamp
Also having rotator cuff trouble. 3 weeks of rest, plus adjusting my paddle stroke plus cortisone shot into the sub-acromial bursa seems to have it sorted.

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11 years 9 months ago #13758 by sAsLEX

Physio wrote:

sAsLEX wrote: Handstand pushups (Eventually) will work the rotator cuff muscles and assist the stability of the joint.

Not too mention the surgery you will need.. .
But I suppose you won't notice after you knock yourself out dropping on your head.


Another option is pushups with one hand on a basketball, less distance to fall, and the stabilizing required from the hand on the basketball activates the rotator cuff muscles.

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11 years 9 months ago #13759 by Physio

sAsLEX wrote:

Physio wrote: Another option is pushups with one hand on a basketball, less distance to fall, and the stabilizing required from the hand on the basketball activates the rotator cuff muscles.

much safer

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11 years 9 months ago #13760 by water2deep
cortico-steroid (cortisone injections) reduce the inflammation process associated with an irritated bursa and rotator cuff. it does not fix the problem. once the steroid wears off you will be left with a weak and painful shoulder once again.

ideally you could have your steroid injection ( if needed at all) then get rehab for the shoulder , so when the steroid wears off you have a pain free, bullet proof shoulder.

rehab would address, rotator cuff strength, pec length , scapula stabilser strength/length, glenohumeral/scapula rhythm.

and if you needed surgery ( with all associated risks) you would have to rehab after anyway).
so why not sort the problem early?

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11 years 9 months ago #13762 by candela
Same problem here. Dislocated mine about 10mths ago. had the option of surgery but decided against it and did all the rehab. Can't sleep on my left side etc.... but once I've warmed up paddling is fine.

In the article "How to: Strengthen those core muscles" there was mention of rotator cuff injury recovery and general shoulder strengthening exercises. I think an article about this would be great. I've got a few exercises from my Physio but would be keen to incorporate some others.

Any news on that Robin?

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  • NordicCoach08
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11 years 9 months ago #13841 by NordicCoach08
Replied by NordicCoach08 on topic Re: freak'n a$$ rt shoulder really ticking me off
I paddle/race surfski spring summer and fall and Nordic ski race in the winter. Shoulders get a lot of work. I had an MRI done about 10 years ago and they said I had marked degeneration. I've heard the recovery from the surgery was long and painful so I've just put up with it. A PT friend of mine gave me a few exercises that she recommends to all Nordic skiers and when I do them I paddle pretty pain free. Big reaching brace strokes in big conditions trying to stay upright seems to be the hardest on it.

The Exercise that seems to help the most is really easy and feels like I'm doing nothing. It's the second one in this video.

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11 years 9 months ago #13848 by Physio
great but be very careful with the third one, empty can is the test we use to check for a rotator cuff injury, so if you go too high and jam it you will inflame it

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11 years 9 months ago #13900 by gstamer
My physio recommended static handstands against a wall for improving my shoulder stability and function. I start on all fours, facing away from the wall and just walk my feet up the wall (very easy and low commitment).

It has worked very well for me (along with massage, and pull-ups). In the beginning just see how long you can hold a stable pose and work toward increasing your hold time with good form. I started with that and have progressed to walking sideways along the wall and handstand pushups.

That said, ask a physio regarding your situation. No two shoulder injuries are alike.

Greg Stamer

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11 years 9 months ago #13902 by Kayaker Greg
A nice video on how to paddle with a stable shoulder joint.

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11 years 9 months ago #13906 by Physio
I'm always disappointed when someone, in trying to emphasise their point uses an analogy which is almost the opposite of what they are trying to show. In this video the guy is trying to say our shoulder is stronger externally rotating than internally rotating. The external rotators are supra/infra spinatus and teres minor and delt all quite small. Internal rotators: teres major, subscap, latisimus Dorsi, pec major. huge muscles. If you want to dispute this, compare the speed of a tennis forehand ( internal rot) to a backhand (ext rot).
Leaves me questioning his whole argument.
And wondering how anyone was performing a catch with their elbow out anyway.

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11 years 9 months ago #13909 by Kayaker Greg
Yes I did wonder about his description :lol: however the point is the same as we were taught at a CRNZ development camp about using the shoulder in a biomechanically correct movement.

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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #13911 by AR_convert

Kayaker Greg wrote: A nice video on how to paddle with a stable shoulder joint.


A drill that I was taught that emphasises what he is showing here (elbows down) is to get a tie down strap, create two loops in it and place it around your elbows so that the distance between them cant increase through your stroke, really helps focus rotation as well.

Always looking for the next boat :)
Last edit: 11 years 9 months ago by AR_convert.

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