Epic V10s or Stellar SEI for small paddler?

It's for the wife
She's 5'6" and weighs 52kg

She finds going upwind in her v7 really tough... She's quite well balanced, though, and reasonably fast and stable in intermediate boats.

Her new boat should also fit me (6'4" 95kg) when I graduate from my current Bluefin, so small cockpits (swordfish, v10l & ses) won't work for now; just a low bow volume boat that she will enjoy for now, until I nick it! (Ok, I'll replace it...)

So we're between the v10s and the stellar SEI - leaning more towards the latter.
What would you suggest?

Or too wide a range for paddler's weight?

Neither one sounds like a good choice for a small female IMO.

The Stellar SR 2G would be a better option then the SEI if you if both are going to use. While the bucket is different on the SR 2g(rounded, tapered, planted) and the SEI(much less taper in from bucket to foot well), the shape on the SR is more far more accomodating.

A friend of mine just got an SR for his friend who is 5ft 3 and 105lbs and he is 5ft 9, 165lbs and with some padding it fits her fine and she is enjoying it. The SR should fit you as well. This is very difficult trying to please both of you with one ski.

The SEI while it will fit you, she will feel swamped in the bucket, while the SR bucket she will feel planted in the bucket based on the how the seat pan is designed. In other words, a paddler for the most part can feel planted in the SR without nessasarily having their contact points touching(hips, thighs, calves). Remember the SR is the same width as the Sport but 1ft shorter, so for her, this should feel better. The SR 2G has superb glide. Hope this helps. The new SEL 2G bucket by the way, is similar shaped in a 17 inch beam ski to the SR.
Wesley Echols, Stellar, USA and SurfskiRacing.com

To be fair, let's just look at numbers… and I promise to keep it simple

Pure Physics:
If a boat will fit a 100# paddler perfectly, there is no way that same boat can possibly fit a 200# paddler.
Likewise, a boat that will fit you really well and down to perfection will never meet all the needs of your wife.

Long Happiness:
"just make sure your wife is perfectly happy" first… and then you will see how easily you will be able to persuade her to "let you" get the boat you want next year.

Andis, (I'm heavier than you) I've owned the V10sport(Ultra) and I own/owned the SEI (Ultra & Excel)...I'm with Wesley the SR (2nd Generation - built 2015 onwards - I've got an Ultra in that model) is the only ski I've paddled in that class that would be enjoyable for you both IMHO - but, it's still a compromise. I think your wife will be too buoyant in either the SEI or V10s - do yourself a favour and try the SR - but make sure it's the new model (2015) as the 1st generation the bucket will be too big for your wife.
Be sure to report back

My wife is 5'4" 56kg beginner - intermediate paddler, she tried everything on the market, even 1st and 2nd gen variations of everything - she settled on Stellar SEI Excel. If she was a intermediate to elite paddler, Fenn Spark or Stellar SES were the options. I paddle a Epic V10 2gen, 6' 90kg, when it's massive messy conditions, I grab my wifes SEI and have a ball. Maybe you should try a 2gen Epic 10L too but you might be too big.

Manufacturers are missing out on a significant market IMO - I see lots of intermediate light weight paddlers including up and coming kids bounce around in high volume skis, they just can't stretch to a elite ski to gain the low volume benefits.

As for you, you've got a lot of choice - Stellar SR, THink Evo II, Stellar SEI, Epic 10S, Vajda Hawx 46, Fenn Swordfish.

I think you'll buy two ski's maybe stick with same manufacturer and negotiate a good deal.

Good luck. Matt

Thank you for the feedback.

While i acknowledge the benefits of a fitting cockpit, and also personally like the concept of the SR, I tend to be more wary of the volume of the ski, especially in the bow. That is what makes upwind paddling so hard to my wife and slaps the ski sideways in beam winds - we get a lot of wind...

If I were a good fit for the swordfish, that is what I would get for her. I don't think I am and I am planning to test that in a couple of weeks.

Very limited access to test boats where I live. I ended up buying the bluefin a short while ago, which is a fantastic boat but too close in ability to my existing v7, playing it safe. I enjoy the boat a lot, but in the same conditions I enjoyed my previous boat in.

Now owning the v7 and the bluefin, I would like to start trying a faster boat in the calm - one that my wife would use more permanently. The SR does not look like it is the ideal boat for her (too much volume) nor what I should be looking forward to in terms of improved ability (too stable & not meaningfully faster)

I like the v10s 2g. We tried one. Could be my next boat, but she gets pushed around a lot.

I am not disputing that we may need 2 different boats being so different in size and in stability, but though of checking with you if you though the SEI, or if some other boat (reasonably faster than the bluefin) could cut it for both of us...

I have SES 1G, SEI 2G and SR 2G. Just measured girth of SEI and SR and forward of the cockpit at three points only a centimetre difference pretty much between the two (SEI narrower) accounted for in the slightly narrower beam of the SEI. In terms of windage height above waterline, there would be more in the SEI because it is a longer boat - there is more to be blown. In addition the SEI being a longer boat (6.1m vs 5.84m) has a greater volume - literally the amount of space inside the hull - making this boat more buoyant and higher in the water for your wife.

The SR would be the better of the two in my view. And do not for a minute discount this ski as being a plodder - it holds its own bloody well on the flat and is sensational in rough stuff - speed and handling. Suck and see is best if you can.

Thanks, point taken about the SR. But let's please leave this aside for a minute...

Any other suitable skis from any other manufacturer?

PS: Hard to understand why the SEI would carry more hull volume than the SR, given that it is slimmer, but I will check with the factory.

The SEI is 26 cm longer.
The SR is 2cm wider.
The SEI is displacing more water when standing still - therefore would be said to be carrying more hull volume.

Hope this helps.

I think a Fenn XT would be an excellent choice for your wife.
Where I live they are readily available on the second hand market at great prices. Then go find a boat for you!
"Happy wife - Happy life".
(coming up on 30 year anniversary)

If your wife is having issues with a V7 in upwind/sidewind conditions then I doubt any low volume ski will be an improvement for her. You definitely notice some windage differences between low volume and regular volume skis in the intermediate to high performance category but I expect a V7 should handle side winds better than any lighter, longer ski.

Having said that both the V10s and the SEI are in the same ballpark stability wise so the most important factor should be your wife's comfort and only she will know the answer to this. Paddle both for at least an hour each to see if either of them cause any physical discomfort over the other. Don't pay much attention to minor stability differences during this as she will adapt to them with time - comfort is more important IMO.

Once you decide which brand is best you need to give serious consideration to the construction level. In your wife's case lighter may not be better from a performance point of view even if it is easier to load on the roof. The other option is to buy the one that fits you best and gamble that she'll hate it.

As the current owner of an SEI, and one who has paddled the 2G V10S and the 2G SR, I would agree with some of the others who feel the SR would probably be the optimum boat for your husband/wife team. The changes Stellar made to the 2G SR completely transformed the boat from the 1G model; not only is the cockpit superb - and likely to fit both of you fairly well - the boat feels fast, fun, and lively. It's a blast to paddle! I think you'll find wind issues will be minimal with the SR. The SEI is a great boat, but the cockpit is larger and I suspect it would not fit your wife very well. The 2G V10S is a nice paddling boat with a surprising amount of stability, and the cockpit could probably fit both of you acceptably, but the larger size of the V10S and flatter side profile of the nose will amplify windage issues (it did on my V12). The Stellar models have more curves and angles to the side profile (as well as a lower profile), helping to reduce wind push noticeably. I am a bigger guy (6' & 195 lbs) with a smaller wife (5'4" and 125), and the SR would be my choice for a boat for both of us to use (we had a 1st Gen SR for my wife originally).

As pointed out by PUNCHES, the V7 is a superb boat for upwind, just like the V8 actually. The problem may be operator error, in which case: it's very "fixable".

Probably best on the menu:
Improving paddling techniques by seeking pro instructions.
Much later, going to a lighter boat, because it's so much nicer for a light paddler.
Much Much later, going to a faster boat.

Alternatively:
You can blame a boat, or any other equipment if you want… but in the end, just make sure that you never have your wife in windy conditions.

I am really not trying to be harsh… just being very blunt here:
The V10L… well, it's "L" for Low Volume.
I can assure you that you will not like the V10L for your weight. Paddlers in the 70+ kilo range tend to like the V10 a whole lot more - and are in fact faster with a V10. Otherwise, yes, your wife may just fall in love with the V10L, but not in the next few months.

In saying all of this, I hope you see that you have plenty of options, including sticking with your current boats, staying away from harsh conditions (at least for a while), and ensuring your wife has a good time on the water. Past that, try to make sure that both of you are getting the most out of your paddling techniques, and then see how much fun the future brings. Stability first… Speed will come (Promise).

I have to agree with photofr here. I am pretty skeptical that changing boats will improve the upwind experience much. Light people are always at a disadvantage going into the wind. Maybe borrow a different boat and have her paddle it in a stiff wind to see if there is a huge difference before dropping a lot of cash on a new boat.

Thank you all very much for your help.
Have arranged to try a swordfish in a week's time, but after your guidance I definitely need to find a new model SR to try.
I will report back on these.
Nevertheless having gone back and re-read all your comments, I must acknowledge that the objective should be to find the most fun boat, not the fastest one - for neither of us.
We don't race our boats, as we don't have the time for the commitments it takes. We have fun together using our boats, and this is extremely important to us.
So that is where I will be focussing now. And is such, the SR may very well be the right boat. If not, I'll abandon the idea of finding everything in one boat and accept that it may need to be 2 different boats.
Re upwind issues, I realised over the last couple of days that it is down to paddler strength. It has been slightly breezy - not windy - and we took our SUPs out. Mine's a 14' heavy Fanatic with a full volume now, 28" beam and some rocker - lots of volume and surface area for big guys
My wife on her carbon 14'x26" slender Naish javelin, much less volume and needle now. Downwind I could not catch her. Upwind she was left far behind despite her faster board.
Morale of the story is that each paddler is individual and it's all about having fun together, not racing people that are not there...
So, agreed with your comments, I should find the right boat for her to enjoy paddling in (she wants a lighter boat for ease of handling) and that doesn't have to be the fastest. After all, it would also be easier to me to use the SR than the SEI. If I manage to improve myself adequately over time as to stay in the SR in all conditions, then I can reward myself with a faster boat...

Finding boats for small paddlers is a nightmare. For the k1 kids I train it is the same problem, they have to jump from a kids boat into a boat designed for 65 kg.
One of my daughters wants to try surf skying, I am working on a home build design for a 35 kg kid, as almost nothing is available right now.

If speed is not too important, this might be interesting for a 52 kg paddler:
www.knysnaracingkayaks.com/surfskis-s1/jester/
And if you can read French:
okrea.fr/kayaks-o-krea/marmousse/

Boats like this do not have the hull speed of longer boats but are easy to move with little power due to the low wetted surface. But not usable for both of you of course.

Regards,

Merijn

My wife is an experienced, but tiny paddler (50Kg). She started out with an SR (G1) but found it a handful in windy conditions. She then went to an SES which was great for her until the wind blew in again. Although she now concentrates on flatwater racing in her K1(s), she has purchased a Think Eze ski for rough/windy conditions. She absolutely loves it. Several of her girl/lady friends have also purchased a Think Eze and all of them are very impressed. (BTW - I'm still a Stellar user with an SR and an SES; I will probably get a new SEL soon). Here she is on her Eze

The Think Eze is a great boat for smaller paddlers, and a lot of fun, but I know from having paddled one of the earlier models that the cockpits were very tight for larger paddlers (challenging if you want a boat for husband and wife); I believe Think has enlarged the cockpit in later versions or at least made a larger cockpit version available, so it might be a possibility. The 2nd Gen SR is a very different animal than the 1st gen SR; much more controllable...

Hi, we tried the swordfish this weekend. What a great boat! It was a carbon boat and rather nervous in the conditions.
However it was indeed very easy upwind and in cross winds, and very fast downwind. The reported tendency to broach was there but I think it was down to the rudder shape. It was an early S model with the rudder positioned more forward and it was evident that it needed a larger rudder, as per the current production boats. The fit was good, but not perfect. The wife still needs some padding. However the hump was low and the cockpit was comfortable.
The boat was too tippy for me. But she loved it
I tried a carbon bluefin that was way tipper than my vacuum glass bf. I was surprised by how much tipper that boat felt. Also had a smaller rudder to mine and that may have contributed to that. Coming from a sea kayak background I tend to control listing of the boat with the rudder a lot - I know it's wrong... - and the small rudder did not help. It was faster to accelerate but I still prefer mine.

Following this group's advice I will be probably going for 2 separate boats for the wife and my self; no point trying to find a boat that caters for both of us when we are so different in size, strength and balance.

I've been offered a slight used 2G v10s performance at a good price from the European dealer that I think would be a good complement to my bluefin.
Also considered Thinks but the prices are outrageous. Fenn has nothing equivalent and that is a shame because I like the quality, the price and the dealer. Despite stellar having a couple of good boats I would be interested in I am uninterested in dealing with them as they have been completely indifferent so far; not promising for future support, I would rather part with money elsewhere...

Thank you all for your suggestions