Evo & Legend in comparison to the V10 & V10S

I've paddled the Think Legend a couple of times in choppy water and would definitely rate the stability closer to that of the V10 than the V10S.

For me the V10S is like sitting in an armchair, it's so solid on the water. The Legend is way friskier.

Haven't spent enough time in the boat to compare it speedwise.

My 11 year old could paddle my V10S and not fall out....she is still trying to master the V10L, did more swimming than paddling today, but at least she was smiling the whole time, loved the challenge.

Many thanks to all for their valuable comments!!

Reviews can work as a good guide when choosing a new ski, but the best bet is to get out there and try each of the skis which interest you. That way you have an unbiased view of each, as well as the knowledge of what fitted best, ran the nicest, caught runs the easiest.

The important thing is to choose the ski which is best for you. All the best in your search.

Thanks... yes, I know, but unfortunately surfski is not popular here and there's still no Thinks around. Thanks again.

I retail both THINK and Epic skis. Both the Evo and V10 Sport are great intermediate level skis which will take a paddler a long way into their paddling career. I am continually talking people down from V10 or Legends to the Evo/Sport. The added stability of both these skis will help with the development of a good forward stroke and help you get into rough water paddling. Many people who test the Evo/Sport vs V10/Legend do so on flat water and don't get the full appreciation of the difference in stability which is amplified on rougher water.

Most people find the initial stability of the Evo comforting. The hull is a bit flatter under the bum than the V10 Sport which has a shallow V. The old V10 Sport's bum bucket was humungous. Epic recognized this and has made the bum bucket smaller on the 2010 V10 Sport version. That has made an already good ski even better. Although the V10 Sport feels a bit initially twitchy it has bomber secondary stability and it is great in rough water.

I don't think you can go wrong with either surf ski. Both are very fast. If you are just getting into the sport I would suggest buying either the V10 Sport or Evo and then upgrade 2 or 3 years down the road. You won't benefit from the slightly faster hull speed if you are struggling for balance even a little bit. Remember that surf ski paddlers are very "Tribal" and will usually tell you, with incredible enthusiasm, that the ski they are paddling is the greatest ski ever made. My advice it to test the ski for yourself so you can make up your own mind.
Bp

I retail both THINK and Epic skis. Both the Evo and V10 Sport are great intermediate level skis which will take a paddler a long way into their paddling career. I am continually talking people down from V10 or Legends to the Evo/Sport. The added stability of both these skis will help with the development of a good forward stroke and help you get into rough water paddling. Many people who test the Evo/Sport vs V10/Legend do so on flat water and don't get the full appreciation of the difference in stability which is amplified on rougher water.

Most people find the initial stability of the Evo comforting. The hull is a bit flatter under the bum than the V10 Sport which has a shallow V. The old V10 Sport's bum bucket was humungous. Epic recognized this and has made the bum bucket smaller on the 2010 V10 Sport version. That has made an already good ski even better. Although the V10 Sport feels a bit initially twitchy it has bomber secondary stability and it is great in rough water.

I don't think you can go wrong with either surf ski. Both are very fast. If you are just getting into the sport I would suggest buying either the V10 Sport or Evo and then upgrade 2 or 3 years down the road. You won't benefit from the slightly faster hull speed if you are struggling for balance even a little bit. Remember that surf ski paddlers are very "Tribal" and will usually tell you, with incredible enthusiasm, that the ski they are paddling is the greatest ski ever made. My advice it to test the ski for yourself so you can make up your own mind.
Bp

Has anyone put any science to comparisons of these skis by calculating how much difference in km/hr there is with all other constants being equal - same paddler, distance, conditions etc?

It would be useful to know how much faster in km/hr a particular ski (model and construction) is over another. I know Rapid Ascent published a comprehensive kayak comparison in 2006-07 which included a ski catagory, but I haven't seen anything more recent. While Wesley Echols Comparative Surfski chart is useful, it doesn't take that next step in quantifying speed.

Speed is really difficult to gauge. A couple of years ago we had a go at it: Surfski Shootout

Although this was good fun and yielded some interesting results, there are so many factors that affect one's speed in a particular ski; flat water speed doesn't necessarily translate into speed in choppy - or downwind - conditions.

The best way to check speed in my opinion is to race the ski against your usual markers (in different conditions) but even then, some skis require some time to get used to.

And of course this isn't practical if you want to compare, say, 6 different skis.

Fun to try though. If we were to do it again, I'd choose (given total free choice):

V10
V12
Mako Elite
Synergy (or the new Custom Kayaks ski that's in the works!)
EOS 660
Nelo
Think Uno
Stellar
Green7
Atom

We'd break it into two groups of skis (at least).
We'd think hard about conditions and try to find a way of trying the skis in flat, choppy, downwind conditions and come up with a way of (as far as possible) objectively assessing the skis...

Might even be tempted to do it... if...

The manufacturers sent us the skis and gave them to us to auction - delivery worldwide! The great surfski.info shootout...

We'd get some of the top paddlers to take part...

We'd do it in two countries (maybe more) simultaneously, with teams in Aus and SA (and maybe other places) taking part...

Wouldn't that be cool?

The best way to compare the skis (and other kayaks) for potential speed performance would be to use a tow tank and develop resistance curves for different weights and across a certain speed range. I would think developing a curve for weights from 100 - 225 lbs, in 25 lb increments, and for a speed range of 3 - 9 mph, would really let you know how one boat compared to another in potential performance (at least in flat water speed).

Hi Superted. Looks like you've got a lot of experience and also knowledge about the Think Evo. I'm about to buy my first surf ski and are currently living in Perth. From what I can tell from ALL the reviews on this wonderful website is that basically the best surfski to buy for entry level is the Think Evo. Do you know where one can buy the think evo and also all it's accessories. I could only find once shop/supplier in Perth so far and they've only got the kayak itself and not the think paddle, etc. Do you think its best sticking to all the accessories for the same brand/product or can one mix and match? Would really appreciate you response. THanks

Cstoff, welcome to the forum , excuse me for asking ..but, how about introducing yourself? Where are you from, what is your paddling background etc

I only ask as the first two posts you have put up (both enquiring about where to get Think products) could appear suspicious to us cynics.

Hi AR. I'm from South Africa and have been rowing/paddling there for about 8 years on flat water. I've been staying in Australia for 2 and a half years but haven't done any paddling for almost 4 years now. Want to make a start again but this time in the ocean as I'm staying on the coast and looking for new adventure. Sorry for being rude before... I've only required about Think because its been doing my head in reading up about each product and so many people has got differt opinions so from I could tell so far the Evo is a good starting point. The V10S also sounds good but too many people complain about the wide seat and that puts me off a bit... Any advise AR?

In that case welcome to the land downunder

Mate, I wouldnt rush out and buy a Think Evo, I was in a V10 Sport 5 months ago, and yes the older model had a wide bucket, but that was easily dealt with using the padding pockets from Epic. The new V10 Sport has a narrower bucket. But really, you could throw a blanket over the V10 sport, Fenn XT and Think Evo for those people learning the ocean paddling side of things, and those 3 boats seem to have really good resale value.

A mate has been trying to buy one of those for the past few months here in WA and hasnt been able to find one, they sell that quickly when they are available.

So then it comes back to the "New" cost, from my experience a few months ago looking at buying a V12, V10L, Think Legend, the Epic boats were able to be bought cheaper (they were selling them much cheaper than RRP/website listed prices), so it's worth asking those that deal in them.

Another thing that may vary between the boats, I took a set of scales with me to the shops I visited and found big variances from quoted weights. I wont go into what I found as I have done on my boat hunting threads and it could read as favourtism here, but my advice is to weigh each boat you are interested in, you may be suprised at the difference.

I only know of Mainpeak selling the Think boats, otherwise Go Paddlesports in Osborne Park was where I got a good deal on my Epic.

The other consideration is Perth is repairs. I had my boat run into in the surf by accident and damaged. I was able to get it fixed to a very high standard (looks like new) through a relative of the owner of Epic Kayaks (SAfrican who lives here. I know we dont set out to damage our boats, but it is peace of mind for me knowing that he is there should I need him again. While he does fix other boats he gives Epic boats priority and carries the right colours/stickers etc.

Best wishes with whatever you choose, it's a good thing when people dont buy a Fenn or Epic, as it gives the up and comers (of which there are many) hope of growing thier market share and inspires product refinement and evolution.

I now own a kevlar evo, carbon legend, and a vintage kev/carb red7 surf70.

Regarding Flatwater speed:
Since Think Boats hasn't responded to this thread I'll quote what designer Daryl R. told me two years ago, that the Legend has about 3% cruising speed over the Evo:
"… so at 10 kph in the Evo, your at about 10.3 in the Legend."

Regarding Stability:
I compared the Carbon Legend and V10S (don't recall the layup) in almost-flat conditions at Deep Cove in BC (a little power boat wake and breeze). The V10S wide seat and low initial stability surprised me with how tippy it made me feel, and I voted for the Legend there.

But later in Hawaii (thanks to Zsolt) I paddled a V10S in 3-4 ft directional swell and wind chop, sideways, upwind and downwind, and I thought it was great due to its high secondary stability. It felt a bit more comfortable there, than with my Evo in milder conditions on the Pacific Coast of Washington (at La Push). But of course there's the 30F water temp difference to mess with your head …

My opinion is in real surfski conditions, an intermediate paddler is far better off racing with a V10S or Evo, compared to a V10 or Legend. But I think for training it is great experience to get in a tippier boat on a regular basis. The junior team kids in our local flatwater sprint club are always switching back and forth between boats and seat heights. Problem is, you gotta have the boats to do it!

I now own a kevlar evo, carbon legend, and a vintage kev/carb red7 surf70.

Regarding Flatwater speed:
Since Think Boats hasn't responded to this thread I'll quote what designer Daryl R. told me two years ago, that the Legend has about 3% cruising speed over the Evo:
"… so at 10 kph in the Evo, your at about 10.3 in the Legend."

Regarding Stability:
I compared the Carbon Legend and V10S (don't recall the layup) in almost-flat conditions at Deep Cove in BC (a little power boat wake and breeze). The V10S wide seat and low initial stability surprised me with how tippy it made me feel, and I voted for the Legend there.

But later in Hawaii (thanks to Zsolt) I paddled a V10S in 3-4 ft directional swell and wind chop, sideways, upwind and downwind, and I thought it was great due to its high secondary stability. It felt a bit more comfortable there, than with my Evo in milder conditions on the Pacific Coast of Washington (at La Push). But of course there's the 30F water temp difference to mess with your head …

My opinion is in real surfski conditions, an intermediate paddler is far better off racing with a V10S or Evo, compared to a V10 or Legend. But I think for training it is great experience to get in a tippier boat on a regular basis. The junior team kids in our local flatwater sprint club are always switching back and forth between boats and seat heights. Problem is, you gotta have the boats to do it!

Thanks AR, you're a legend for giving me so much information. Osborne park is not too far away from me so would definitely go and visit them for a quote and weigh them up a bit. It's very interesting how you mention about the repairs because one don't actually think about that.

It's good to know that Epic has got a new bucket now as I am about to buy a new one anyway.. Have been saving a while now to get into this fun sport again and looking forward strengthning my lower back/stabilisers again!

Once again thanks and much appreciated!

Hi Cstoff,


If you require any information on the Think range, feel free to ask us, more than happy to help out. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Cheers,



Stewart.

Cstoff, if you are quick a Fenn XT has just come up for sale on www.rapidascent.com.au/Forum/ForumTopics.aspx?tt=5&e=6 :woohoo:

Hi AR,

Thanks for the link! I was the first one to have a look at it and it was still in great shape and well looked after so I bought it!! Now the hunt begins again to find a paddle.. haha THanks mate