1st ski

knauer wrote:

....do you have any idea what the secondary stability of the ses

I had a V10L and was looking for something just a little more predictable in chop and downwind, I was attracted to the SES as another V10L paddler in Sydney was looking around at other ski's for the same reason. He got the SES and improved immediately. In the end for me I chose another ski due to off the water reasons rather than the performance of the boat.

These are considered an intermediate ski but if you are keen and spend enough time in it you should become confident in the bigger conditions over time. I believe some SES owners have found a bigger rudder helps with downwind feel.

I have the V10 Sport performance and a SES advantage. I have a hundred+ hours in the V10 and probably only around 50 in the SES.

I find the V10 Sport (with surf rudder) is in an completely different league than the SES. I can Paddle the V10 Sport confidently in almost any conditions I encounter. (west coast USA and Great Lakes Canada so my bumpy condition are not like the big SA and OZ conditions, I get wind chop and close set big lake waves). It's initial stability is so great I can sit sidewise in it. This makes it very easy to remount.

The SES is less initial and secondary stability than the V10S. It is much harder to remount and it seem more effected by the wind. Its down wind performance IS improved with the new surf rudder. The payoff is that it really is much faster. In flat conditions my race pace in the V10 Sport is a nice training pace in the SES. I have been using it recently with the small weedless rudder and I find that its initial stability is decreased further.

I do find the SES a much better fit for my small frame. I have to pad the V10S to get it to fit well. The pads help the feeling of stability in the V10S.

Cheers,
Tom

Thanks everyone for all the replies and advice. I've had to reduce the budget significantly if I want to get into a ski this year. For around about the grand mark I'm looking at either the endorfinn or prs 2nd hand. Anyone paddled both these and have any recommendations?

Hawkey wrote:

I'm looking at a ski for cross training in the ocean especially for the ability to paddle up and down wind.

If this is still the case forget the endorfinn, after the Avon decent there should be a few 2nd hand PRS come onto the market, if they've taken a few knocks and scrapes you could get one for under a grand...otherwise there are the odd glass ski's come up on www.geartrade.com.au for under a grand too.

I'm still in the process of learning about the various options out there in my price range and for what I am after. At the cheaper end of the market, is it worth looking at club style spec ski's and what are the pro's and con's of these ski's. How would a club spec ski compare in terms of speed and stability with something like the prs or an xt?
Thanks for any advice.

Although all spec skis are built to a spec 18kg, they also have varying rocker and hull shapes, so once again it ranges from very stable to very tippy.

They can be just as fast on the flat as an ocean ski and in the shorter wave periods. The SLSC guys I sometimes train with seem to be just as fast in thier ocean skis as thier spec skis but they are using intermediate to advanced skis.

BTW just picked up a 2nd hand PRS for $1000, so they are out there. This will be my river racing ski.

Thanks for that reply.
So it sounds like a spec ski may well be an option to get me into the sport. Would you suggest looking for an appropriate spec ski or a prs considering value for $, resale, ease of learning etc

For the increased weight the PRS is a surprisingly quick plastic ski. Resale wise, you can't go past a 2nd hand PRS already discounted. It will also take a bit if abuse which tends to happen with your first ski as you get used to handling it on and off your car, walking around corners with it and losing control in the shore break etc. That would be my suggestion. Most 2nd hand spec ski's are made for a particular leg length so unless you can find one if the right level of stability and that fits you I reckon a PRS is a good first ski.

My Ski Club is starting up an academy to bring in younger participants than what we are currently seeing and have opted for the PRS as it is relatively light weight (for plastic) at 18kgish good stability and great speed considering it is plastic, heavy, stable. can't reccomend it enough

For my 1st ski. I went with the V8, which I absolutely love. Anyone else ever try one? They're not the skinniest things around but they are super stable. Havent tried it in the ocean yet so I cant comment on that part.

dagger23 wrote:

For my 1st ski. I went with the V8, which I absolutely love. Anyone else ever try one? They're not the skinniest things around but they are super stable. Havent tried it in the ocean yet so I cant comment on that part.

While those of us who are now in "proper" ocean ski's may scratch thier heads at the V8 I can see the sense in this ski as I started my entry to Ocean ski racing through an even more stable proportioned plastic ski called the Finn "Affinity" .

I bought it 6 weeks prior to my first adventure race and quickly realised (during the race) that I was hooked and would be updating shortly after.

However that being said a V8 may be a good entry level boat for all the family.

The V8 price entry point is quite high, I guess Epic are not looking at the market the same way I am but I would think if they are competing against these stable plastic boats they need to sharpen thier pricing somewhat

I finally took ar_convert's advice from another thread, stopped procrastinating and bought my first ski.
I went with a light weight prs which I picked up second hand. Thank you to everyone for all the advice and answering all of my questions so generously and honestly. I'll now be asking heaps more about how to paddle the thing

Woohoo well done, look forward to meeting you at an event in the future!

Post a pic of you and your first ski!

Bugger!! and here I was thinking a V8 was a real ski.

I took one for a good spin yesterday and was very happy with my performance on a "propoer ski". I then jumped on a V10sport and was treading water inside 5 minutes. I'm not sure how long it would take to get reasonably confident on one but yesterday I couldnt get anything more than 25% effort into it before I felt I was going in agian. The V8 on the other hand I felt as if I could do handstands on without going for a swim.

Is an XT anymore stable than a V10sport? Anyone know if you can hire one in Sydney? Sydney Harbour Kayaks had the Epic's.

Cheers

Shady wrote:

Bugger!! and here I was thinking a V8 was a real ski.

Shady if it makes you feel better, of course it's a real ski, but there are ski's then there are ski's, if you are happy in that ski, who cares what others think or say if on the other hand you want to race or do anything more challenging like bug downwind runs then you may need to work up to a different type or level of ski.

Shady wrote:

Is an XT anymore stable than a V10sport?

Splitting hairs from my point of view here, perhaps the XT is slightly more stable.



See I have even added the V8 to my ski list from most to least fast/stable.

Finn Endorfinn
Spirit Surfski
Epic V8
Fenn XT
Spirit PRS
Epic V10sport
Think Evo
Finn Molokai
Stellar SE
Fenn swordfish ???
Carbonology Vault
Think Legend
Epic V12
Epic V10&L
Stellar SES
Fenn Mako6
Fenn Elite
Think UNO
Fenn Elite SL
Fenn millennium
Carbonology Atom

Does everyone still agree with the order of the above list? More specifically with regards to the Swordfish.

Its time to move on from the V8 and its interesting to read my post of 7 months ago being extremely unstable on the V10Sport. I took one for a spin for an hour last weekend felt quite comfortable on it. I certainly noticed the difference but was able to put down 100% power. I'll be on the V10Sport again this weekend and will go looking for a little more rough stuff to see how I go.

I'm wondering if I should consider the Swordfish.

I dare say the EvoII and Think Eze should be slotted in there and without having padled either of them I'd hazard a guess that the Eze should be either side of the V8 and the EvoII possibly just after the v10Sport.

I like that list, although even trying 1/4 of the boats on it will be slim to none. Only thing in my area is Epic's and a few Stellar's. Would like to move out of the V8, although its very comforting to know you can paddle is 20 degree weather and not really worry about swimming. Only other boats that I have tried are the V10 sport and V10L. Didnt get very far in the 10L and the new 10L's I need a shoehorn to get into them. Epic must of tightened up the cockpits a bit. Would love to try the Evo or similiar model someday.

I think you should go with the ski that fits you best - the fit differences are there b/w an Evo II and V10 Sport: for me the Evo is a smidgen narrower seat bucket than ideal where the Sport (new version with the narrower bucket) is a smidgen wider than ideal. The footwells are the opposite - the Think is long enough, the Sport is just a hair short when wearing shoes (which I can't even put on with the Think, so the Evo is out of the question for me since I do paddle cold water and need shoes there - wouold have to change the foot strap to a single design to possibly fit with shoes in it). The SE Stellar has a huge cockpit, the V12 Epic is too short for my legs, etc.

B/w the Sport and the Evo there should not be much practical difference in speed, but the Sport in a similar construction to the Evo II is definitely a bit more stable (especially in terms of final stability) - but not enough to matter as they are both relatively stable compared to a 17" wide ski and relatively unstable compared to the V8 kind of ski.

After another hour spent on the V10Sport this time in a little more bumpy conditions (if only a little more) this morning I'm very much liking this boat. Its only a hire one from Sydney Harbour Kayaks but I could easily see myself in one.
Its certainly going to take some getting used to and I recall feeling as almost as unstable in the V8 only last November when entering bumpy conditions for the first time. It took 3 or 4 paddles between the heads to start to relax and I'm hoping this will be the case in the V10sport.

I felt that the boat didint track straight in anything but the calmest of conditions but this could have been all in my head. I do recall having the same thoughts last week.

Coming back to the beach after an hour I noticed a EVO II sitting on the beach and asked the guys if they'd mind if I took it for a quick paddle. I'd have to agree with eveything you said Kocho. The bucket is quite a bit tighter, too tight for me. I felt what I can only assume was "hip pinch", where too much weight was on the side of my hips rather than my rump. I noticed a big bump under my thighs, enough to get in the way of leg drive. I could start to see the benefits of having a snug fitting ski but my bum in this ski was more than snug and as with the V8 I plan on using my next ski in this years Hawkesbury Classic. I dare say I'd be uncortable after an hour in this ski let alone 13 hours.
I'm not sure if it was in my head or not but it didnt feel any less twitchy than the V10sports but I was very uncertain on it and thought it was going to throw me in any second but it never happened (or not until I was in knee deep water when I stomped on one peddle).

I think I can reasonably cross the Evo II off my list. The only other ski I'm planning on testing is the XT