1st ski

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11 years 2 months ago #7122 by Hawkey
1st ski was created by Hawkey
Hi all,
I'm looking at getting into surf ski paddling and have no experience paddling skis. I've paddled stand ups and out rigger canoes for a couple of years. I'm looking at a ski for cross training in the ocean especially for the ability to paddle up and down wind. The stand up is great fun down wind but any other wind and they are a pig to paddle.
At this stage I'm thinking plastic as it would be cheaper and perhaps a faster learning curve.
I'm 188cm tall and a bit under 80kg.
I know the best thing is to demo but if anyone has suggestions to point me in the right direction I would be most appreciative.
Thanks.

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11 years 1 month ago #7127 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Re:1st ski
Go and buy a Fenn xt ...... everyone else did. It will feel like the most unstable thing you have ever sat on, but a month down the track you'll be hooked. When it's time to sell it and move up a level, you'll have no trouble finding a buyer.

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11 years 1 month ago #7128 by Hawkey
Replied by Hawkey on topic Re:1st ski
As a starting point, I'm thinking of trying the xt in glass boats and plastics the endorphin and spirit. I realise that to compare a glass boat to plastic is like chalk and cheese, but I think I need to get my backside into as many boats as possible to work out what is best for me. Any other boats that would be worth considering and demoing?

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11 years 1 month ago #7129 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Re:1st ski
Oceanpaddler had some demo xt's for sale for $1800. I would try the 3 boats you have listed. The spirit racing ski really isn't that stable, just unbreakable.

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11 years 1 month ago #7130 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re:1st ski
Well if you intend on paddling downwind you can forget about the endorfin or Spirit Surfski, they may be okay in short wind blown chop (I had the spirit surfski) but they cannot accelerate quickly enough due to thier weight and short length to do true downwind runs. They are also very exposed so in bigger conditions they can carry a lot of water in the cockpit with you.

The PRS is about the only plastic option you have to start on, the Finn Molokai would be just too unstable for a beginner.

Even the PRS can spit out beginners but you will get the hang of it and it can do downwind due to it's length.

You mentioned you are thinking Plastic as you think it may be cheaper? A new PRS with options to make it worthwhile paddling in the ocean($2000)will cost you more than a good second hand Glass ski, even a 2nd hand PRS can be around the $1400 mark.

So if price was the only reason you were looking at plastics do yourself a favour and dont bother, get a 2nd hand Fenn XT, Dorado, Epic V10 sport, Think Evo and enjoy the reduced weight and increase in performance that they have over the PRS.

Where are you? You may be able to meet up with a group of paddlers somewhere to paddle some of these craft and get the owners opinions?

Always looking for the next boat :)

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11 years 1 month ago #7134 by Hawkey
Replied by Hawkey on topic Re:1st ski
Thanks for the replies and advice.
I'm in Perth.
I was looking at the Think evo on their website and that sounds like it could be good. Does anyone know if they are available for demo in Perth?

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11 years 1 month ago #7135 by Dicko
Replied by Dicko on topic Re:1st ski
The Rapid Ascent website has the ad for the xt's. On the canoeing in WA site there is also an Evo for sale. Seems a good price.

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11 years 1 month ago #7136 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re:1st ski
Hawkey wrote:

Thanks for the replies and advice.
I'm in Perth.
I was looking at the Think evo on their website and that sounds like it could be good. Does anyone know if they are available for demo in Perth?


Mainpeak in Cottesloe? has Think demo's but you need to call and book a time to meet down on the river.

There are a few guys with a Fenn XT and Epic Sport and Stellar SES down at the mandurah dome paddle at 7am on a Saturday morning. They are friendly fella's and I'm sure they would give you a paddle. About 8.30 the group returns to the Dome for breakfast after the paddle, that would be a good time to show up.

There may even be a PRS or two there as some of the guys may be training for the Avon descent.

There are other groups around Perth too that may post once reading this thread.

Canoeing down under have demo mornings on Saturdays, maybe give them a call to see which boats you could demo.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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11 years 1 month ago #7141 by Hawkey
Replied by Hawkey on topic Re:1st ski
I've been reading various reviews on skis and in them it talks a lot about primary and secondary stability. What does this mean?
Cheers.

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11 years 1 month ago #7142 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re:1st ski
Hawkey wrote:

I've been reading various reviews on skis and in them it talks a lot about primary and secondary stability. What does this mean?
Cheers.


Primary - what some tend to refer to as the twitchiness of the boat when you first sit in it, does it feel tippy at rest or when paddling in the flat? Are you able to paddle well without feeling like you are going to fall out?

Secondary - This is why we tell those new to ski paddling to demo ski's in lumpy conditions, this is the stability of the ski when it is acted upon by swell, chop or your ability to paddle a tippy boat is tested and the boat rolls to one side....if it feels like it it becomes more stable as it tips over this is referred to as secondary stability.

My current boat has about the same primary stability some other other top end ski's but when in challenging conditions the shape of the hull gives me more confidence as it has better secondary stability but the shape of the hull also costs a bit in terms of flat out speed.

Generally the more stability you have the less speed in the hull, this is the dilema for paddlers and boat builders and hence why there are so many boats and new designs coming out. Each trying to find the right balance and why I suggested recently we are about to see an influx of "intermediate" ski's hit the market due to the gap between the V10 Sports, Fenn XTs etc and the Fenn Elite, Think Uno's.

When I moved from my V10 sport to my V10L it took me a while to be able to paddle it as fast. The primary and secondary stability of the sport allowed me to paddle the ski at my maximum effort. It took me a few months to get even close to paddling at max effort in the V10L and that was in flat water, when the chop and swell was up I was continually challenged trying to keep the power on due to it's secondary stability.

I ended up swallowing my pride and getting a ski with just a little bit more secondary stability and that was the ticket to being able to paddle faster in the chop and swell.

Hope this has gone some way to help explain :dry: .

Fun, isnt it ;)

Always looking for the next boat :)

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11 years 1 month ago #7143 by edmondsmatt7
Replied by edmondsmatt7 on topic Re:1st ski
I started from scratch 18 months ago. I've trained and raced all 3 boats (xt, V10sport and Evo2) - used the xt in the Perth Doctor this year which was perfect for my level of experience.

All 3 are great boats for what you want. Do not start on anything narrower or longer as you will spend too much time trying to stay upright and not enough time developing your technique and fitness and you will find it very difficult to manage offshore.

In my experience the xt is slightly slower but more stable than the V10 sport and the Evo2 slightly faster and less stable than the V10 sport.

The Evo2 (my current boat) seems to me to be faster upwind than the others because of its sharper hull entry and vee shape upfront and is the best downwind of these options as it seems to pick up runners better and surfs really well with the bigger rudder.

A big issue is the need to be comfortable in the seat + leg length setup so you definately need to try them all.

Fenn have just released the Swordfish (intermediate boat) which you should try (when it arrives shortly from SA) as it will compete with the Evo2. See Oceanpaddler in WA.

Your stability will improve considerably in the first 2 months if you paddle 3 times a week regardless of which boat you get.

Try to budget for the lighter boats as their downwind performance is better and they are much nicer getting on and off the car and down to the beach!

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11 years 1 month ago #7144 by edmondsmatt7
Replied by edmondsmatt7 on topic Re:1st ski
I started from scratch 18 months ago. I've trained and raced all 3 boats (xt, V10sport and Evo2) - used the xt in the Perth Doctor this year which was perfect for my level of experience.

All 3 are great boats for what you want. Do not start on anything narrower or longer as you will spend too much time trying to stay upright and not enough time developing your technique and fitness and you will find it very difficult to manage offshore.

In my experience the xt is slightly slower but more stable than the V10 sport and the Evo2 slightly faster and less stable than the V10 sport.

The Evo2 (my current boat) seems to me to be faster upwind than the others because of its sharper hull entry and vee shape upfront and is the best downwind of these options as it seems to pick up runners better and surfs really well with the bigger rudder.

A big issue is the need to be comfortable in the seat + leg length setup so you definately need to try them all.

Fenn have just released the Swordfish (intermediate boat) which you should try (when it arrives shortly from SA) as it will compete with the Evo2. See Oceanpaddler in WA.

Your stability will improve considerably in the first 2 months if you paddle 3 times a week regardless of which boat you get.

Try to budget for the lighter boats as their downwind performance is better and they are much nicer getting on and off the car and down to the beach!

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11 years 1 month ago - 11 years 1 month ago #7145 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re:1st ski
edmondsmatt7 wrote:


In my experience the xt is slightly slower but more stable than the V10 sport and the Evo2 slightly faster and less stable than the V10
Fenn have just released the Swordfish (intermediate boat) which you should try (when it arrives shortly from SA) as it will compete with the Evo2. See Oceanpaddler in WA.

Your stability will improve considerably in the first 2 months if you paddle 3 times a week regardless of which boat you get.!


Good summary and points there Matt.

I had suspected the stability/speed ratings of these boats were as you say.... the only disclaimer being the ability to use that speed if the decrease in stability isn't coped with.

As an exercise, why don't we continue to rank/rate other boats and see how people percieve the rest of the better known models for outright stability, and lets assume we are talking the heaviest lay-up in that model. I'll kick it off...

Fenn XT
Spirit PRS
Epic V10sport
Think Evo
Finn Molokai
Stellar SE
Fenn swordfish ???
Stellar SES
Carbonology Vault
Think Legend
Epic V12
Epic V10&L
Fenn Mako6
Fenn Elite
Think UNO
Fenn Elite SL
Fenn millennium
Carbonology Atom

Always looking for the next boat :)
Last edit: 11 years 1 month ago by AR_convert. Reason: Boats rearranged as per comments by RAB & CDO

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11 years 1 month ago #7148 by cdo
Replied by cdo on topic Re:1st ski
Good idea AR_convert.

It would be great to add to this list and get further input. I can get the ball rolling by commenting on the SES being more stable than the SE / SEL? I suggest it is the other way round in that the SE / SEL is actually more stable than the SES. Remember you were listing stability high to low not speed.

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11 years 1 month ago #7150 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re:1st ski
And I find the V12 more stable than the V10, even though the bucket may be a touch short for me and puts my legs high.

The list may very well be different for different paddlers.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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11 years 1 month ago #7156 by AR_convert
Replied by AR_convert on topic Re:1st ski
List edited to reflect your input.

Always looking for the next boat :)

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11 years 1 month ago #7162 by knauer
Replied by knauer on topic Re:1st ski
Hi all

I hope this is the right place for such a post. Let me start by saying I have only been paddling for 3 weeks but have already learnt a tremendous amount from your input to my post and reading others like this one thanks!!

I am still on the look out for my first Ocean Ski some of you have helped steer me in the right direct and I think that this is a great topic. I have only just this morning taken the Stellar SES out for a 6km paddle in my search for my first ski, admittedly on flat water, but it was incredibly stable, I think I only had 2 brace strokes the whole paddle. This is only the 3rd ski I trialled and now I am even more confused because I thought I was no chance of sitting upright for any length of time in such a narrow ski. Being new to ocean skis I decided to try and paddle flat out to see how that affected my balance and what I found that even though I felt at times it was going to tip it was very easy to catch without having to use the paddle to brace. I can maybe put this down to being able to brace with my legs in the narrower cockpit. I have also paddled the Ozflyte R21 and FENN XT. In the R21 I got very wet and in the XT fell out twice, this was the first ever Ocean Ski I had paddled definitely related I would suggest. I would say that the SES was stable and the rep told me the in order of stability for the Stellar from most to least was

SR
SE/SEL
SES

I would rank the R21 less stable than all of those though it doesn't seem to get much of a mention anywhere.

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11 years 1 month ago #7166 by Rightarmbad
Replied by Rightarmbad on topic Re:1st ski
There are two sides to the stability story.

A boat with high primary stability sits flat and stable, but, it is also more affected by the water tipping under it, as it wants to stay flat on the water.
The low stability boat, whilst it initially feels tippy, can, if it is designed well, be less tippy in the waves as it doesn't feel the wave as much.

The secondary stability is what will save you when things get really tough, primary will only give you a false sense of security.

If you really need the primary stability to let you relax, then go for it, but it will be more affected by the lumpiness of the ocean.

But in the end, that is the key, relax and let the boat do it's thing.

Follow the path of the independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that are important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.--- Thomas J. Watson

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11 years 1 month ago #7167 by knauer
Replied by knauer on topic Re:1st ski
Thanks rightarm band do you have any idea what the secondary stability of the ses is? I don't or won't necessarily get the opportunity to demo in lumpy conditions. I deliberately paddled so I was hit broad side by trawler wash today and it seemed ok and ocean was flat no swell I was at Mooloolaba?

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11 years 1 month ago #7169 by Hawkey
Replied by Hawkey on topic Re:1st ski
Has anyone paddled a spectrum?
Anyone got any experience with these with regard to stability and suitability for a beginner?
Theres one here for sale locally thats really cheap.
perth.gumtree.com.au/c-Boats-Jet-Skis-bo...i-W0QQAdIdZ290407579

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